Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 41: Jade’s Adventures in Dumbtimeloopland

Introduction

Part 40 | Part 41 | Part 42 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 14 of 32

Pages 3250-3294 (MSPA: 5150-5196)

NOTE: Next week is spring break, so the next two (possibly the next three) posts will be posted at a faster rate than usual: on March 15, 18, and possibly 21 respectively. Never mind, that’s a really time-crunchy schedule. Let’s just say the next three posts will each be posted at most five days after the previous.

Hilarious every time.

Back from where we left off, Jade answers Karkat and talks about her sprite. Speaking of which, here’s another pattern Jade breaks that I should’ve mentioned last post: (21) her sprite is not a long-lived entity.

GG: i made the mistake of prototyping my dream self who has been dead for years 
GG: and shes completely crazy and theres no talking any sense into her 
CG: HMM. 
GG: hmm? 
CG: YES. “HMM.” 
GG: hmm what 
CG: HMM AS IN HMM INTERESTING. 
CG: AS IN HMM HOW VERY, VERY FUCKING INTERESTING INDEED.

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Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 40: The Miracle of a New Beginning

Introduction

Part 39 | Part 40 | Part 41 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 13 of 32

Pages 3192-3249 (MSPA: 5096-5149)

Jade tries out her Christmas presents, continuing the Christmas special theme, I guess like the episode following the Christmas special.

First off, Jade shows us what John and Rose are up to. I really like how both pictures above show some future knowledge device showing Jade with her spectagoggles, signifying that pretty much everyone now has some way of knowing future stuff. The narration says “You wonder why…” or “You wonder what…” a lot of times, which I think signifies that knowledge of the future does not equate with omniscience.

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Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 40 (Recap 3 Annotations)

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Here are my comments on Recap 3 of Homestuck. It’s pretty long so I’ve decided to put it in a separate post. Are you ready for lots of words? If so, then here we go.

  • The recap doesn’t dwell much on the events of Hivebent; it just says a whole bunch of stuff happened and the trolls created the kids’ universe but had their entry to it cut short. Then it goes straight to recapping Act 5 Act 2 so far. This is notable because it kind of acknowledges that much of the trolls’ arc isn’t too relevant to the greater story line; I discussed this in more detail in post number 27.
  • After the first paragraph, the recap first lists events from Karkat’s perspective, then John’s, then Rose’s, then Dave’s, then Jade’s. I suppose it’s the most convenient way to list a huge array of events that went down in Act 5 so far.
  • The scratch is referred to as a “spacetime rift” that “forced [Jack] into the trolls’ session”. More scratch red herring stuff I guess. Later, Doc Scratch outright states that the scratch is not a rift used to banish Jack; another one of those “making false theories explicitly wrong” moments.
  • The section about Karkat’s perspective makes much reference to events back in Acts 3 and 4, which I guess is for the sake of reminding people of the order of the trolls’ events.
  • John is stated to be “oblivious to the true nature of [Vriska’s] schemes”. What is the true nature of her schemes? I guess as the point talked about at this point he is oblivious, but later Vriska makes it clear that it’s for self-aggrandization, involving herself in a boy’s path to heroism, and everything else for that matter.
  • I’ve mentioned several times that it’s a bit fuzzy whether John almost prototyped the blue doll because of its missing eye and arm or just removed its eye and arm. The recap seems to point to the former idea, saying that he “resolve[d] to prototype with the blue doll, missing an arm and eye, to deliberately disable Jack”.
  • Rose’s study of the Green Sun leads to a subsection on Doc Scratch and Lord English, talking about events in the trolls’ arc like Scratch making Vriska kill Aradia and himself being used to blow off Vriska’s arm. This shows that the trolls’ arc isn’t entirely irrelevant; the first paragraph just gives the gist of it and its ultimate purpose, and later parts I guess recap it further.
  • Terezi helping Dave is stated to be “in part due to her rivalry with Vriska”, which I guess answers the question of whether the Terezi-Vriska competition is just one-sided Vriska misconceptions.
  • Terezi is stated to heave led Dave into a pot of soup only because it “needed to happen on his timeline”. I don’t think that was stated when I read that part, though I could be forgetting stuff. In Act 4 Terezi said to John that she wanted to see what happens if she tries messing with the timeline even though they say you can’t mess with the timeline, so it’s a bit weird that now she’s apparently just following through stuff.
  • It’s stated that Terezi and Vriska are “partaking in a dangerous game of rivalry fueled flirtation”. Is it supposed to be flirtation with each other or with the kids?
  • Dave’s section of the recap does a decent job clarifying stuff about the order of events in his timeline. I’ve seen multiple attempts to sort all pages in chronological order from each of the characters’ perspectives, and there are pretty clearly some hard or ambiguous parts. The recaps probably help with that.
  • Apparently Jade couldn’t remove her entry item blindfold, which serves as evidence that maybe it does have first guardian properties or something? I’m not sure.
  • Finally, Hussie is apparently the second most important character in Homestuck. Even though he’s kind of a joke character, he’s involved in Caliborn’s rise to power, just like Gamzee, his rival in supposed importance.

I didn’t give these extensive comments on the first two recaps, though look at how long this bullet list is. Make of that what you will.

Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 39: the CRISMATS SPECAIL

Introduction

Part 38 | Part 39 | Part 40 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 12 of 32

Pages 3133-3195 (MSPA: 5033-5095)

HO HO HO

WV, thinking John is dead, tries to escape his command station but the door jams because the station is out of fuel.

Of course you still have your secret treasure, but it will almost certainly prove to be of no use to you in this dilemma whatsoever. It clearly serves no significant purpose other than to be pretty, and to make your hand glowy.

Sure, whatever you say, Mr. Narrator! Some time later in the exile arc, we learn about plans for dealing with Jack Noir where it’s made clear that the ring will be used for stuff. With that in mind, PM being the final wearer of the ring is quite the plot twist.

Oh yeah, there’s another thing you forgot about! You ate that delicious green nuclear rock earlier in the day, even though it feels like it was more than a year ago.

Here’s something Homestuck occasionally does: linking to earlier pages in order to remind people of things they might have forgotten about. I think this probably should be done more often; for example, I’ve seen people reading Homestuck completely forget about the time Karkat told past Jade her robot will blow up when it is referenced several times later. In this case it’s a reminder of the Chekhov’s uranium. The “more than a year ago” bit is another one of those things that made the most sense to serial readers. But I guess that could make sense to archival readers (most especially those reading at a slow pace) given that as the link reminds us, the uranium was eaten over two thousand pages ago.

Ugh, there he goes again, bothering you. He is so impatient. Doesn’t he realize how time consuming it is preparing for the holidays? He’s just going to have to hold his stupid angry alien space horses.

Wait… you almost forgot, it’s still April, and nowhere near the holiday season. You guess all this wintry weather tricked you into thinking it was.

But wait! Even THAT doesn’t make any sense, since it never snowed on your island, and you were never able to connect it with the holiday season! Boy, are you confused.

But you always wanted a white Christmas, and dammit, that is what you are going to have, even though it’s April, and even though you are giving all these presents to yourself, and even though Jesus Christ is no longer a relevant figure to celebrate on account of the annihilation of humanity!

This is yet another part that made the most sense to serial readers. But it’s not that hard to guess that these panels were posted around Christmas time. I hadn’t previously realized it, but the following stretch of pages is essentially Homestuck: The Christmas Special. And I’m going to say stuff about Christmas specials.

Almost every TV show or other serial work of media will have at least one Christmas special, often in the second season. The classic Christmas special goes something like this: the characters meet Santa Claus and discover through him the true meaning of Christmas. However, in more modern works of media, as well as those geared towards older audiences, the theme of the Christmas special will be toyed with and in some way massively subverted. Think of a TV show or whatever else. Now think of its Christmas special. How much would you say it subverts the typical Christmas pattern? Repeat this process as many times as you want.

The narration quoted above specifically talks about how it’s not actually Christmas even though this is the Christmas special. Homestuck is a work of media that’s all about subverting typical patterns. Before we open presents, I should note that this is the only Christmas special in Homestuck, unless you count John’s alchemy binge, posted near the previous Christmas.

This is one of the most hilarious panels in Homestuck, subverting the pattern of detailed portraits (1234) we’ve been getting of some of the other trolls. The narration says, “Karkat cannot be conveyed with a more detailed portrait yet. He is too angry, and is forced to look like shit. Maybe later if he can manage to calm down.” Better yet, the drawing is very crude but still has subtly flashing screen light effects.

I LOVE how the Sburb interface font changes to Comic Sans for SBaHJ items.

TG: yes perfect 
GG: it is the prettiest tree i have ever seen!!!!! 
TG: ok im going to torrent you another like negative billion artifact grists 
GG: ok great! 
GG: everything about that makes total sense 

Dave is helping Jade make a Christmas themed upon everyone’s favorite comic. This Christmas special focuses mainly on Jade, but it also has people working together to set up a very merry Christmas.

Also, Jade is right on here. Why do you even need negative artifact grist? What purpose does it serve? How can you have negative amounts of grist in the first place?

As you can see from comparing the two pictures above, the conksuck boot above is literally flat and 2-dimensional. This whole SBaHJ-ey Christmas interlude is a nice goofy and silly break from dramatic shit.

GG: is this conksucky enough 
TG: its the conksuckiest piece of fucking shit that ever still somehow qualified as a boot 
GG: ❤ 
TG: you just know imigrants were responsible 
GG: well… 
GG: i am not even sure if i am technically a u.s. citizen! 
TG: yeah see what i mean

It sort of says something about Jade’s life that she apparently doesn’t know whether she’s a U.S. citizen. This implies that she doesn’t know what country she lives in. I’m pretty sure her island’s coordinates are in U.S. territory but I have no idea whether that counts as being a citizen. More on Jade’s isolation from society later.

Jade proceeds to have her own alchemy binge, and I’ll comment on whatever parts I feel like commenting on.

A few times in this sequence, including this alchemization, Jade uses some of her friends’ possessions. How did she get those? Probably Dave just gave her the code.

Jade tries to alchemize earmuffs but ends up making a fluffy ball plus headband instead. As the narration says, why is this thing so expensive? The sizable cost implies some kind of special use, though I can’t think of any use for such a thing.

You have secretly wondered whether your grandpa was actually Iron Man in his younger years. It would explain so many things, including why this armor is here.

This page is another one of these moments where an easily missable bit from a while back is brought to light. In this case, it’s the inexplicable Iron Man suit amidst a room full of knight armor.

Also, it’s pretty interesting to consider the implications of the narration’s statement that Jade wondered whether her grandpa is Iron Man (she should totally tell Jake this). This either demonstrates her grandpa’s status as an impossibly awesome guy or Jade’s status as someone secluded from society. I guess it could be both things.

There’s quite a bit of evidence throughout the comic that Jade is pretty isolated from society (for instance, remember when she dunked a towel in a toilet to try and clean it?), but despite that, she generally acts pretty normal. For example, even though she apparently follows through with the creepy taxidermy tradition, she seems to know it’s weird given that she warns John not to look in the lab atop her house because of her dead dream self. This reminds me of how Kanaya is emphasized in her introduction to be isolated from troll society but isn’t portrayed as oblivious to cultural norms, if anything the opposite. Jake, on the other hand, is portrayed as heavily oblivious to stuff because of his isolation from society, almost deconstructing Jade’s life. The alpha kids are in general deconstructions of traits of the beta kids—taking traits from beta kids and bringing them in a whole new direction—and I’ll have a lot to say about that when we meet them.

Jade makes an Iron Man suit and the pattern breaking count is back yet again. (20) The other kids eventually settle on a single outfit by the halfway point of Act 5 Act 2, but Jade switches between all the outfits she’s made.

If you are going to adopt a new regular outfit, you’d prefer something a little comfier and less ostentatious, and if possible, in less flagrant violation of copyright laws.

I totally forgot this funny copyright joke. Homestuck has never really followed copyright laws, flagrantly including appearances of and even more allusions to numerous works of media. This has some serious ramifications on Hiveswap, the upcoming Homestuck adventure game. I’ve heard that Hiveswap will use a troll alphabet different from the Daedric alphabet stolen from The Elder Scrolls that Homestuck uses.

This image above is an example of one of those interesting bits of trivia about Homestuck: types of grist used to make an object will often resemble the object itself, as will the numbers.

Jade combines some random stuff for experimentation’s sake (as I said I love these sequences where characters experiment with the game) and makes…

…none other than Johnny 5 himself! I was expecting something more complicated but it’s worth the gag.

Jade’s alchemy sequence ends with the narration saying, “Ok that’s enough.” followed by “HAPPY APRIL 13TH, 2009 EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!”, rubbing it in our face that this Christmas special isn’t on Christmas in-comic. It’s also a great example of the weirdness of webcomic time; Homestuck is probably an extreme case of this, with years of updates taking place over days.

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s April 14th, 2009 by now, not April 13th. The kids’ game entries are all spaced apart by around four hours, and John entered around 5:30 PM Pacific time, so Jade entered around 5:30 AM John’s time zone. Jade is four hours west of John so it’s at least April 14th, 1:30 AM in Jade’s time zone at this point. When the 24-hour reckoning ended and the session is scratched, I think it would be April 15, 2009, around 5:00 AM John’s time zone.

Pedantry aside, Jade’s alchemy binge is pretty cool but it doesn’t beat the amber smuppets and stuff that Dave made. In any case, merry not-Christmas everyone!

Jade answers Eridan, who I guess is the troll featured at the tail-end of this Christmas interlude. It would’ve been cool if the troll here was Gamzee because Christmas is in his zodiac sign, but whatever. There’s probably some alternate version of the zodiac where Christmas is in Eridan’s sign.

CA: noww that youre done makin all that pointless rubbish 
CA: ivve got somethin wway more wworth your wwhile 
GG: which one were you again? 
GG: wait 
GG: werent you the guy who was always trying to hit on me?? 
CA: that couldvve been anyone 

Eridan has a point here; at least half of the trolls have tried to hit on one or more of kids. I mentioned two posts ago that it’s really weird that so many of the trolls try to hit on the kids, and it seems like they acknowledge this.

CA: so you might as wwell take it and settle your score wwith that awwful wwitch 
GG: but 
GG: im the wwitch! 
GG: i mean witch 

If Eridan was Jade’s patron troll, she would no doubt make this mistake a lot.

GG: i do not have a score to settle with rose!!! 
GG: why would you think that? 
CA: oh 
CA: wwell fuck 
CA: suppose i wwas guessin it wwas natural to presume somesuch relation like that betwween the twwo a you 
GG: i think you are projecting your own attitude on to others 
GG: just because you tend to hate and/or hit on everyone you meet doesnt mean everyone else is that way 

Jade is pretty much summing up the deal with Eridan. Projecting your own attitude onto others always makes for hilarious dialogue, and it’s something a lot of trolls do.

GG: rose just sent me a code for a crystal ball, shes my friend and is basically the best! 

I guess that answers the question of how Jade used her friends’ possessions in alchemy. Pretty much what I presumed.

CA: oh i see so she shared her “magic secrets” wwith you then 
CA: its probably a trap i wwouldnt trust her 
CA: she is a cunnin and treacherous sort trust me i knoww her type 

This troll is hilarious. Did I mention that? Even though Rose called him a complete idiot he still inexplicably sees her as an adversary he just outclassed.

CA: oh wwill you just take the fuckin gun already 
GG: no i dont want it!!!!! 
CA: its a wway more powwerful wweapon than any of that crap you made 
CA: its a legendary relic wwithout equal 
GG: more like a legendary piece of shit! 
CA: youre bein needlessly fuckin stubborn about this im doin you a fuckin favvor here 
GG: yes but i dont like you very much and i feel really icky about accepting a present from you 

Note the phrase “a present from you”. This reminds me of the Christmas stuff that just happened.

Eridan gives Jade the code for Ahab’s Crosshairs and she recognizes it.

GG: hmmm… 
GG: i have seen this before 
CA: howws that possible 
CA: its a one of a kind wweapon plundered from an alternian ghost ship 
GG: i am very sure its the same rifle included with johns present 
GG: but… 
GG: bigger of course 
CA: probably a cheap imitation of the original 
CA: uh 
CA: kind of like that one there is 
CA: so theres your answwer stable loops ahoy 
CA: noww enjoy the utter fuckin domination it affords 

This newly made copy of Ahab’s Crosshairs is almost certainly the one that’ll be sent to the lotus time capsule. Sending the bunny’s weapons to the time capsule is one of those plot points that still needs to be resolved as of the Omegapause. I think there’s a 60% chance that it’ll be explicitly shown how that’ll play out. I say 60% because it’s largely pretty obvious how that’ll happen. The obvious part is how to get the weapons. Each of the four weapons probably has a copy currently available to put in: the Warhammer of Zillyhoo alchemized in the trickster arc; the Quills of Echidna taken from Echidna; the Royal Deringer which I think is a stage of the whole Welsh sword cycle thing; and of course, the copy of Ahab’s Crosshairs Jade just alchemized. The non-obvious part is who will do the task. I’m sure by now most of the characters have realized that the bunny will bring nothing but trouble, so I’m not sure who will be up for the task. Maybe Vriska will coerce Jake, who is oblivious to the danger the bunny provides as far as we know, into doing it? Or did some Derse agent already steal the weapons while we weren’t looking?

GG: yes but…. 
GG: i did not provide the weapons! 
GG: my penpal did 
CA: wwhos that 
GG: the guy who helps me build the present 
GG: we worked on it together but he supplied the bunnys weapons
GG: im pretty sure hes from the future! 
CA: wwhy 
GG: because he said hes my grandson 

It would be pretty interesting if Jade’s penpal turned out to be literally Jade’s grandson. But knowing the mixed-up family relations in Homestuck it’s not at all illogical to guess that he’s not her genetic grandson. If we are to assume that he is her genetic grandson, then this guarantees that some Jade ship will be canon.

CA: wwhat the fuck is a grandson 
CA: is that some kind of pervverse human familial thing 
GG: umm yes 
CA: nevvermind then your procreational biologistics make my fins curl in distaste 
GG: oh no!!!!! 
GG: aaaaa please dont tell anyone i told you about him! 
GG: augh how could i let that slip to you of all people 
CA: settle dowwn jade youre radically underestimatin the amount of shit i dont givve about this 

Surprisingly, Eridan of all people is the voice of reason here.* Pointlessly withholding information is sort of a thing in Homestuck. The aggravating thing about that is, 99% of withheld information is completely harmless to let out, and will at worst be thought of as some kind of prank.

* I’ve been waiting for months to say that.

GG: i have wondered about that, assuming he is right…
GG: he was so nice, and it really did feel like i was talking to family, so i really dont think he was making it up
GG: i couldnt help but try to imagine his parents… 

Here, Jade is assuming that her penpal had parents. That assumption is a bit weird when you consider that before the ectobiology sequence, the identities of John’s mother, Rose’s father, and Dave’s and Jade’s parents are never once brought up.

GG: and more interestingly…….
GG: his grandfather :O
GG: i still wonder who it could be…
GG: although i guess at this point
GG: the options are pretty limited 😮 

I can only imagine Jade thinking that she’ll have to have babies with Dave or sleuth out some other boy playing a Sburb session if she doesn’t want to bang a troll.

CA: ok i think im startin to feel ill talkin about things makin me fathom pink wwigglers comin out a your owwn personal torso 
CA: so change a fuckin subject 

Apparently the trolls know a thing or two about how humans reproduce that isn’t bullshit. It’s never really made clear how trolls came about to understanding human culture, other than I guess deducing certain things from the Trollian viewports.

CA: that gun i just gavve you is somethin of a hatchright to the kid
CA: happy i could play a role in your dirty stinkin lineage
GG: like an heirloom? i guess it could be
GG: do you even have those? if you dont have parents how could you?
CA: no wwe dont knoww our direct forebears and im pretty sure any attempt to seek out or evven inquire about the supplier of your genes wwould be a fine wway to get yourself killed 

It’s pretty interesting how Eridan is describing things about troll culture. It’s an unsettling thought, not just not knowing who your genes came from, but not being allowed to know, and since we’re talking about trolls, death is the penalty.

This bit brought to mind the pages where we learned about troll reproduction, and I just thought up something: when Karkat created the trolls, probably all their genes combined in one big slurry to create the other twelve trolls, and each one inherits genes from all the trolls, but the largest portion from one of them.

CA: but wwevve got our lore and it says wwe all got indivvidual ancestors wwho contribute to most of our genes abovve and beyond wwhat the grubs slurry does
GG: ewwwwwwww
CA: oh shut up
CA: anywway a lot of us believve wwere meant to trace the footsteps of those ancestors evven though wwe can nevver knoww em
CA: and on that journey wwe can come across belongings they once had cause wwe wwere hatched to find em and finish their wwork
CA: i kinda think thats wwhy i found the gun in the first place
CA: but noww im forsakin it because fuck i just found a better destiny than my old crappy one wwhich i nevver got any appreciation for anywway 

This is the first description of the concept of ancestors. It’s sort of a common thing in works of fiction for there to be a group of historical figures, each of whom strongly corresponds to a major character, from some specific time era. The ancestors are a pretty tangential aspect of Homestuck, though from what I can tell there’s quite a lot of fanworks about them. Some of the Homestuck videos I watched before reading the comic were weird stuff that featured them, which was a big factor in my impression of Homestuck.

Once I made a YouTube video that featured a snippet of some Homestuck video featuring the ancestors (among about ten other videos), and in the description I called those characters “some random animated characters”. Then a commenter told me that the characters are from Homestuck and their names are The Signless, The Ψiioniic, etc., which I thought was bizarre. In my first read, I never once reached the part where I thought to myself, oh, that’s the part with all those weird “the this, the that” characters. Although I do recall thinking of the Condesce (and also Meenah) as weird evil versions of Feferi.

Introducing the weird troll session countdown thing whatsit. 10:25 hours before some event, Jack slices the victory platform door in half and the trolls go to the meteor lab; 6:12 hours Jack destroys Prospit; 5:12 hours Karkat wakes up as we saw in Alterniabound; and here we are at 4:13 hours. These few pages are clearly meant to introduce the whole countdown thing, and they’re probably when Hussie had the idea for it. The whole point of the countdown I think is mostly to give people a scale of time for the troll session stuff.

AA: hi 
TA: hii? 
AA: i guess i sh0uld say s0mething 
AA: bef0re i g0 
TA: aradiia, ii am riight glubbiing here, liike two feet away from you. 
TA: iif you want two 2ay 2omethiing two me why don’t you ju2t turn two your left and 2ay iit, iit’2 bad enough that you’ve hardly 2aiid two lou2y word2 two me 2iince you became that 2weaty a22hole’2 2moochbot. 

Yet another moment where people lampshade the constant use of chat clients.

AA: i kn0w 
AA: but this is hard f0r me 
TA: how ii2 iit hard. 
TA: you are a tiin can, robot2 don’t have feeliing2. 
AA: n0 thats n0t true 
TA: ok then, what ii2 iit. 
AA: s0rry ab0ut everything 
AA: and all the bad luck y0uve had 
AA: y0u didnt deserve it 
AA: i have t0 g0 n0w 
TA: what, where are you goiing? 
AA: im n0t sure 
TA: er, cool ii gue22?? 

Here, Aradia is making her goodbyes, and trying her best to reconcile despite being a robot. Her apology gives her a bit of development as a character. First off, she is making her goodbyes to Sollux, her longtime friend, rather than Equius, who she was merely programmed to love. In a sense this is showing some emotions amidst her empty soul. That probably sounds lame but whatever. Also, she recognizes that the manipulative stuff she did to Sollux was rather undeserved, more hints of emotion.

AA: anyway thats it 
TA: waiit. 
TA: you mean for good, wiill ii see you agaiin? 
AA: i d0nt kn0w that either 
AA: but i guess if y0u d0 
AA: pr0bably n0t with y0ur eyes 
TA: what the hell i2 that 2uppo2ed two mean? 
AA: i think y0ull be 0k with it th0ugh 

Yet another bit reminding us of something we might have forgotten about. Back in the trolls’ arc, Sollux talked about the prophecy that he will die, become blind, and die again. Now we’re reminded of the blind part of that prophecy, the second third of it.

AA: 0_0 
AA: i wish 
AA: i c0uld s0meh0w make that em0tic0n smile 
AA: 0u0 
AA: n0 that l00ks stupid 
AA: 0h well 

Here, Aradia is trying to smile. It’s interesting seeing her try her best to make a heartfelt goodbye.

Some people insist those two were certainly never in a relationship.

2019 EDIT: HOLY SHIT, HUGGING? HOLD THE PHONE, THAT’S ABSOLUTELY UNHEARD OF!!!

At long last, robotic Aradia smiles as she gives Sollux a hug and then…

And there it is, fulfilling a promised future event in Alterniabound. Sollux takes off his glasses and sheds weird mustard tears. (I am not at all sorry for the gross imagery this will surely evoke.)

An hour later Terezi watches Doomed Dave wake up, saying that was apparently pointless given he was supposed to get killed in his sleep and then ascend. But then…

And that’s the ultimate failure of the attempt to get Dave to god tier. I already discussed this failure last post. Terezi breaks down in tears at the death of this Dave and leaves the lab. See you next time as Jadesprite becomes a thing.

>> Part 40: The Miracle of a New Beginning

Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 37: I Killed Your Grandpa And I Like You

Introduction 

Part 36 | Part 37 | Part 38 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 10 of 32

Pages 3048-3074 (MSPA: 4948-4974)

Picking up from where we left off, Jade has an extremely awkward conversation with Tavros.

AT: i SPENT SO LONG SLEEPING AND DREAMING AND PLAYING ON PROSPIT, 
AT: tHAT BEING AWAKE WAS MADE TO FEEL WEIRD, aND i DIDN’T LIKE IT FOR A WHILE, 
GG: yeah i have done a lot of sleeping myself 🙂 
AT: oH, yES, i KNOW, bUT, 
AT: i SAW YOU, yOU WERE AWAKE A LOT TOO, 
AT: aFTER A CERTAIN MOMENT, i SPENT JUST ABOUT EVERY WAKING HOUR BEING ASLEEP, 

just realized something. Breath and blood are thought to be an opposing pair of aspects. Karkat, the trolls’ hero of blood, did not sleep at all during the trolls’ session; Tavros, the trolls’ hero of breath, slept almost the whole time during the trolls’ session after a certain point.

GG: what did you want to talk about? 
AT: i WANTED TO ASK YOU PERMISSION, 
AT: i WOULD HAVE ASKED PERMISSION THE FIRST TIME, 
AT: bUT AT THE TIME YOU WERE NOT ABLE TO GIVE IT, oR TALK OR ANYTHING, 
GG: permission for what? 
AT: tO COMMUNE WITH YOUR LUSUS, 
GG: with bec? 
GG: uh…. 
GG: what do you mean by commune? 
GG: and 
GG: what do you mean the first time! 
GG: you did it before? 
AT: yEAH, 

Tavros is asking if it’s OK for him to commune with Bec, even though he had already did so before, and as we’ll see, it wasn’t any good.

AT: sO THEN i COMMUNED HIM TO USE HIS AMAZING POWERS, tO, 
AT: iNTERVENE, 
AT: aND REROUTE THE PROJECTILE AWAY FROM THE PATH THAT WOULD HAVE HARMED YOU, 
AT: aND ALSO, 
AT: aS A WONDERFUL BONUS AND COINCIDENCE, 
AT: iT HAPPENED THERE WAS A FELON ON YOUR PROPERTY,

Think about that for a second. Tavros, one of the most nonviolent trolls, took an opportunity to remotely kill an old man who he somehow thought was an unwanted felon. Why did he make this assumption? Vriska thought of John’s father as a meddlesome adult human, and Terezi and Equius both recognized Dave’s brother as taking the role of his lusus. This implies that either Tavros is kind of dumb, or Jade’s grandpa left her wandering on her own way too much. Could be both.

AT: iT WAS i THINK SURELY AN AGING ROGUE WHO WAS VERY MUCH KEEN ON INTRUDING BETWEEN YOUR REALLY NICE LOOKING FAMILY, 
AT: aND AS FORTUNE WOULD HAVE IT, 
AT: tHE SMALL MISSILE WAS REDIRECTED INTO THE SENIOR INTERLOPER’S CHEST, 
AT: aND HE DIED, 
AT: }:)

And that’s how Jade’s grandpa died. Tavros of all people remotely killing someone really says something about trolls and their ways.

Also about Grandpa’s death: there are several things that turn out to be a Vriska thing, but Grandpa’s death turns out to be a Tavros thing. This exemplifies how Tavros is trying to imitate what Vriska did.

GG: omg…… 
GG: that wasnt a senior interloper, im pretty sure youre talking about my grandpa!!! 
AT: oH, 
GG: and if im interpreting correctly…. 
GG: youre saying you used bec to make me shoot him??? 
GG: augh thats so awful! 

Turns out Jade didn’t know until now how her grandpa died. Just imagine, little Jade was having an ordinary day outside, but all of a sudden she sees her grandpa dead with a hole in his chest. How traumatizing can you get?? More on that later.

GG: well im not blaming you or anything 
GG: it sounds like you were just trying to help 
GG: and you did save my life 
GG: but…… 
GG: i mean jeeeez 
GG: talk about a misunderstanding 

Jade is being surprisingly polite here to the guy who killed her grandpa out of a fatal misunderstanding.

AT: wELL, 
AT: nOW i FEEL VERY STUPID, 
AT: bUT, 
AT: i DON’T THINK i WILL GIVE INTO BAD SELF ESTEEM THIS TIME ABOUT THIS, 
AT: iT’S IMPORTANT TO STAY CONFIDENT ABOUT STUFF, DON’T YOU AGREE, 
GG: uh 
GG: sure? 
AT: aND i THINK THIS IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO BOND, aND BECOME CLOSER IN AN EMOTIONAL WAY, 
AT: pROBABLY, 
GG: …. it is? 
AT: oH YES, sEE THE FUNNY THING IS, i ALSO KILLED MY LUSUS BY ACCIDENT, 
AT: i MEAN, mY LUSUS THAT WAS A LITTLE FAIRY BULL, nOT AN OLD MAN WITH A HUGE GUN, 
GG: oh nooo 
GG: how did that happen? 
AT: i MURDERED HIM INAPPROPRIATELY WITH A FOUR WHEEL DEVICE, 
GG: 😐 
GG: ummm what kind of device? 
AT: lIKE, tHE KIND BASICALLY FOR CRIPPLES TO SIT IN, aND ROLL AROUND, 
GG: oh you mean a wheelchair! 
AT: i GUESS, tHAT’S A WAY TO CALL IT, 
GG: how… 
GG: did that happen? 
AT: wELL, 
AT: i WAS SITTING IN IT, bEING CRIPPLED LIKE USUAL, 
AT: aND HE GOT UNDER THE WHEEL IN HIS NAP, 

Here, Tavros is trying to assure Jade that she isn’t alone, relating the story of how his lusus died. It’s not exactly funny though, nor is it that similar to how Jade’s grandpa died.

GG: i didnt realize you were paralyzed 
GG: not that im saying sorry for that! that would be rude i think 
GG: i am just saying sorry for your loss 
AT: oH, iT’S OKAY, oN BOTH THINGS, 
AT: hE CAME BACK TO LIFE FOR A WHILE, aND COULD TALK, AND THAT WAS FUN, 
AT: aND ALSO, 
AT: i’M NOT PARALYZED ANYMORE, }:) 
GG: oh? 
AT: nO, i HAVE ROBOT LEGS, aND i FEEL GREAT, aND i CAN WALK, 
GG: wow nice! 
AT: oH YES, iT IS TRULY NICE, 
AT: i AM A NEW AND DIFFERENT GUY, mOSTLY, 
AT: bEING NOT PHYSICALLY HANDICAPPED IS MOST CERTAINLY THE KEY TO HAVING HIGH SELF ESTEEM, 
GG: um 
GG: that….. 
GG: i dont know if i agree with that! 
AT: oH ABSOLUTELY, tAKE IT FROM ME AS WHAT FACT IS TRUE, 
AT: aND NOW, i FEEL EMBOLDENED TO DO BOLD THINGS THAT HEROES SHOULD DO, 

Tavros is all about weird ideas of gaining self-confidence. There’s not only this segment, but also things like being briefly merged with Vriska and feeling her personality or learning that Rufio is a real person. Tavros’s main role in the story is as a foil to Vriska, and his arc is about overcoming her influence.

GG: i just wish… 
GG: maybe you’d told me what happened when i was younger? 
GG: i spent years wondering about it! 
GG: when i was REALLY young, i was sure the doll sitting across from him did it 
GG: and for a long time i was terrified of the evil blue girl!!! 
GG: she sort of haunted my childhood and i had trouble sleeping for a long time 

That evil blue girl is the same one that almost got prototyped into Jade’s sprite, and would’ve been combined with Grandpa if things went according to plan. That’s weird to imagine when you think about how Grandpa went on a date with that doll, weirder than Grandpa being combined with a female doll in the first place, but not as creepy as Grandpa going on dates with dolls in the first place.

GG: but of course i got older and realized that was silly, but then i just speculated that maybe it was suicide 
GG: which was just a really sad thing to think about!!! 

Jade’s life suddenly seems a lot less fairy tale-like. Is trauma about her grandpa being dead why Jade disturbingly acted as if he was alive? In an Act 3 post I talked about how Jade hides emotions the least of the beta kids, but upon closer inspection of her acting like her grandpa is alive, I’m not sure how true that is. In Acts 1-4 Jade was all about being super chipper and goofy, but the first time we got dialogue from her after her dream self’s death she was way more sour than she ever was, and since then she’s been fairly open about her feelings of contempt and bitterness. Before then, was she too carried away with her magical dreams to let out her inner grouchiness? That kind of makes sense. As I’ve said before, Jade gets a lot of development through the course of Act 5 Act 2 away from the silly dreamy girl, but in Act 6 she hasn’t gotten very much screen time. I’m really looking forward to hearing more from her after Homestuck resumes, getting her back into the spotlight and stuff.

AT: wOW, yEAH, 
AT: i, 
AT: tOTALLY BLEW THAT THEN, 
AT: i GUESS i COULD STILL TELL YOU ABOUT IT IN YOUR PAST, 
GG: buuuut… 
GG: even if you do, i dont remember you doing so! 
AT: oH, 
AT: tHEN i GUESS I WON’T, 
GG: er 
GG: ok :\ 

I’m not sure if it would be much better if Tavros did tell younger Jade how her grandpa died. She probably would think it’s a really awful prank, and she’d hate the trolls more than she already did. Maybe after the whole adventure started and she learned more about the trolls she would’ve thought that maybe Tavros was indeed responsible for her grandpa’s death, and then hate him and the other trolls still more.

AT: bUT YEAH, iRREGARDLESS,
AT: tHIS IS LIKELY TO BE EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING NOT TO STAND IN THE WAY ABOUT GOOD FEELINGS ABOUT MYSELF,
GG: …….
AT: i MEAN, i SAW THAT YOUR LUSUS SAVED YOU ANYWAY, iN ADVANCE,
AT: aND,
AT: i JUST WANTED,
AT: tO MAKE IT POSSIBLE SO THAT i WAS THE ONE INVOLVED WITH BEING THE HERO THERE,
AT: tO SAVE YOU,
AT: lIKE, tO PUT MYSELF IN YOUR STORY, iN A BRAVE CAPACITY, bECAUSE,
AT: tHAT’S WHAT FEELING GOOD AND POSITIVE ABOUT YOURSELF IS ALL ABOUT,

OK, this just screams Vriska. At this point, readers will think, oh my god Tavros, don’t try to imitate Vriska you dumbass. This is EXACTLY what Vriska’s doing, and Tavros talking about doing the very same thing is really painful to read.

GG: woooooow…
GG: you sound really confused to me!
AT: aBSOLUTELY, i AM CONFUSED LIKE A FOX,
AT: tHE KIND THAT HAS HIGH SELF ESTEEM,
GG: heheheh
GG: youre incredibly silly
GG: i cant really tell to what extent youre joking around here! 

Compare this to John’s reaction to Vriska talking about how she’s involving herself with all events. John completely takes Vriska’s claims at face value (not to imply they aren’t true), but Jade isn’t sure if Tavros really means what he’s saying. This is not so much a difference between John and Jade as it is a difference between Tavros and Vriska. Vriska is genuinely all about involving herself in everything, but Tavros is just a confused naive imitator.

AT: i’M PRETENDING THAT BEING FULLY HONEST ABOUT RUFIO’S FAKENESS, AND,
AT: bEING UP FRONT ABOUT HIS GENERAL FRAUDULENCE, tHAT IT WILL ONLY GIVE ME EXTRA CONFIDENCE,
AT: i’M PRETENDING THAT AS HARD AS i CAN, iN THE MOST CONFIDENT WAY,
AT: wHICH MAKES IT PARTIALLY MORE TRUE,
GG: that
GG: sure is a philosophy you have there! 

It’s a philosophy that doesn’t even make sense. So you have an imaginary friend, and you always keep in mind how fake he is, and knowing he’s fake will give you extra confidence?

AT: yES, bEING CONFIDENT IS ALWAYS ABOUT SAYING AND DOING THE THINGS YOU FEEL,
AT: eVEN IF THE AFRAID PART OF YOU SAYS, nO, pLEASE DON’T DO THAT,
AT: lIKE, uHHHHHHH,
AT: hERE IS A THING i’M AFRAID TO SAY TO YOU, jADE,
AT: bUT,
AT: i’M TOO CONFIDENT NOW TO LET MY AFRAIDNESS MAKE ME FEEL TERRIBLE,
GG: oh??
GG: well, what is it?
AT: rEMEMBER, i TALKED TO YOU A LOT WHEN YOU WERE SLEEPING,
GG: yes
AT: uHH, aND,
AT: wE TALKED ABOUT LOTS OF THINGS, aND WE HAD SOME THINGS IN COMMON, aND IT WAS NICE,
GG: sure!
AT: aND i THINK CONSEQUENTLY, tHE EMOTIONAL RESULT IS PROBABLY,
AT: tHAT MAYBE i HAVE SOME POSSIBLE RED FEELINGS FOR YOU, 

Jesus. Fucking. Christ. Now is not the time to hit on Jade, even if you hadn’t just revealed to her that you killed her grandpa. I’ve had several times in my life where I thought I was a new way cooler person than ever before and said some things that I now think were pretty stupid.

As I’ve mentioned before, half of the trolls developed romantic feelings for at least one of the beta kids. What does this say about the trolls? To them, the humans are four kids from the universe they created who they can spy on, and they must all have it in the back of their heads that they could meet the humans in person. Did all the trolls feel that their current friends are all incompatible and that their group is practically a romantic wreck? Is it done to entice shippers? Or is it just because the prospect of aliens hitting on humans via chat clients is funny? The latter explanation is very unlikely, because obviously nothing in Homestuck is just done because it’s funny. (hint hint)

GG: red feelings?
GG: you mean
GG: whoooooaaaaaa
GG: wait
GG: really? 😮
AT: wOW, tHAT SURE WAS A HARD THING TO SAY AND MADE ME INCREDIBLY NERVOUS,
AT: bUT i SAID IT BECAUSE OF MY REMARKABLE LEG-POWERED SELF CONFIDENCE,
AT: aND NOW i THINK ALL THAT’S LEFT IS DEFINITELY YOUR RECIPROCATION ABOUT THAT, pROBABLY,
GG: um……………..
GG: well
GG: i dont think i can reciprocate!
AT: uH OH, 

Jade’s reaction to Tavros hitting on her is pretty similar to John’s reaction to Karkat hitting on him. In both cases, a human converses with a troll he or she has conversed with many times, but the conversation quickly jerks into awkward avenue; the troll goes on to reveal out of nowhere that he has feelings for the human, and the human is caught off guard and turns the troll down. John turned Karkat down because of confusion and incompatible orientation, which makes me wonder, how would John react to Karkat’s advances if one of them was a girl? That’s a pretty good question; I think John would probably just be confused. He wouldn’t be oblivious entirely, given that he recognized what Karkat said to him as black romance stuff.

AT: bUT WHAT ABOUT, 
AT: mY ATTRACTIVE BRAVADO,
AT: aND IGNORING MY INSTINCTUAL COWARDICE HARD ENOUGH TO SAY THAT i LIKE YOU,
AT: iSN’T THAT,
AT: sUPPOSED TO BE VERY ATTRACTIVE, aND ENCOURAGE THE MAJOR HAVING OF FLUSHED FEELINGS IN OTHERS,
AT: i GUESS WHAT i MEAN IS, wHAT ABOUT ALL MY CONFIDENCE,
AT: wHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, 

This is just hilariously wrong. What Tavros is saying is exactly what makes you come off as a fucking creep.

GG: i aaaalso think…
GG: and really this is just polite friendly advice!
GG: that if youre really confident you dont always have to say it all the time
GG: it…
GG: oh man im sorry to say
GG: it just comes of as a little insecure and off putting and kind of defeats the purpose! 

It makes you sound like a little kid who just learned what self confidence is and thinks the best thing to do is to shove how confident he is down everyone’s throats.

Grumpy Jade is back.

This conversation has gotten way off track, and Jade gets it back to the original point: Tavros communing with Becsprite.

AT: yES, oF COURSE,
AT: i WANTED TO GET APPROVAL FROM YOU, tO COMMUNE HIM AGAIN,
AT: nOW THAT HE’S A SPRITE,
AT: tO PERPETRATE ONE OF MY HEROIC IDEAS AGAIN,
GG: uh-ohhh
GG: what is your idea this time?
AT: i WILL SUGGEST TO HIM THAT HE ATTACK YOUR ADVERSARY,
AT: aS WELL AS OURS,
AT: aND MAYBE BEAT HIM, tO SOLVE EVERYBODY’S PROBLEMS,
GG: wow, i dunno about that!
AT: bUT i HAVE GREAT SKILL IN COMMANDING BEASTS TO GLORY IN BATTLE,
AT: aND YOURS IS SURELY THE STRONGEST BEAST I’VE SEEN!
GG: but hes my best friend!!!
GG: and you have already managed to get one of my family members killed 

Although communing with a first guardian to fight enemies might be a good idea in theory—did Vriska ever give thought to Tavros controlling GCat to deal with the threats?—getting a family member killed is a very good reason not to trust someone to do so.

AT: bUT ACCORDING TO MY SELF CONFIDENCE, i THINK i’M PRETTY SURE i CAN USE HIS POWER TO BE SUCCESSFUL,
AT: wHOOPS, PRETEND i DIDN’T MENTION MY SELF CONFIDENCE, oR SAY ANYTHING OFF PUTTING,
GG: but all of our adversaries have inherited his powers!
GG: i would imagine the strongest guy would have all of his powers, and then some!!!
GG: i am really not comfortable with this
AT: oH,
GG: you said you are asking me permission first and i appreciate that
GG: but if you are asking im afraid my answer is no! 

This is one wreck of a conversation. If Tavros didn’t get Jade’s grandpa killed through ignorance alone, then maybe it wouldn’t be so bad. Then again, Jade’s politeness might have deluded Tavros to an extent, thinking that she isn’t really that mad at him. After all, Dave scared Tavros the hell away just by shooting him some disturbing sexual imagery.

AT: oKAY, i RESPECT THAT,
AT: bUT, i WONDER,
GG: what?
AT: i WONDER IF A TRULY SELF CONFIDENT GUY, wITH THE BEST SELF ESTEEM THERE IS, wOULD EVEN NEED TO ASK,
AT: mAYBE THE BEST GUY WOULD JUST KNOW HE WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL, aND WOULD DO IT ANYWAY BECAUSE IT IS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD, aND EVERYONE ELSE’S,
GG: no way!
GG: that would be smug and arrogant and would make you a bully!!!
GG: later if my friends and i want to ask bec for help and decide thats our best hope, then thats our business
GG: until then, just please stop meddling!!!!!! 

Thank GOD Tavros didn’t turn into a mini-Vriska. He was dangerously close to being one but eventually came to realize that it was pretty stupid. Jade could totally tear into Vriska and rip her to shreds if she were to talk to her. It’s a bit disappointing that Vriska only decided to troll John when you think about it. Even here, Jade’s berating Vriska’s ways without even realizing it.

AT: wOW, oK,
AT: yOU’RE RIGHT ABOUT ALL THAT, i’LL RESPECT YOUR WISHES,
AT: oR,
AT: wILL i? };)
GG: nooooooooo dont dont dont dont dont
GG: im serious
GG: uuuuggghh i think my headache is coming back 
AT: i WAS jUST,
AT: mAKING A JOKE,
AT: sORRY, }:( 

Jade was just starting to warm up to the trolls, but now she feels exactly how she did when she woke up. And that’s not because of watching Karkat argue with himself, or Vriska tearing into her for being useless. It’s because of Tavros being a doofus.

Vriska proceeds to laugh at Tavros for having such an embarrassing conversation with Jade and tear the hell into him.

AG: Jade let you down too easy. She’s too nice! Someone’s got to tear into you for that appalling display, and once again, guess who’s shoulders that falls on?
AG: That’s right. Vriska’s, as usual. 

So Vriska’s saying that Tavros must be yelled at for having such an embarrassing conversation, and apparently Jade pretty strongly scolding him wasn’t enough. Seriously, Jade was pretty forthright when she criticized Tavros’s ideas, so this is really just a Vriska excuse for tormenting Tavros. Vriska is all about shitty excuses. For instance, at one point in the trolls’ arc she claimed that she built up his home with stairs to help challenge him and make him stronger.

AT: i THINK SHE HAS THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF NICENESS, pERSONALLY,
AT: aN AMOUNT THAT IS SOME, iNSTEAD OF,
AT: nONE,
AG: Hey, I’m nice when it matters, and where it doesn’t strangul8te the critical development of people I give a shit a8out, ok?
AG: Really I don’t know what you see in her. She is completely useless, like you.
AG: W8, of course!!!!!!!! It makes perfect sense. You and she represent the ideal matespritship, how could I have 8een so 8lind!

What is with Vriska and thinking Jade is super useless? If any of the beta kids at this point isn’t a moron, it’s probably Jade. She actually gets stuff done on her own in a constructive direction. Did her sleeping tendencies make Vriska think otherwise?

AG: When you talk a8out your self confidence, I throw up a little. You don’t know what confidence is. Ro8o-legs don’t give you confidence, that 8n’t no more true than saying my ro8o-arm gave me mine. See what I mean? 

This is a really bad analogy, and I’m sure Hussie intended it that way. I hate bad analogies, like when someone analogizes little bad things people do with eating poop straight out of the toilet or to murdering someone. Vriska presumably got her robot arm soon after having her arm blown off, equating to spending a short period of time one-armed, but Tavros spent four or more years in a wheelchair. It may be true that robot body parts don’t magically give people confidence, but being able to walk for the first time in years would surely give one a sense of jubilation.

AT: oK, i THINK, 
AT: tHIS IS ACTUALLY MAKING ME PRETTY MAD, 
AG: Yeah right!!!!!!!! 
AG: I’ll 8elieve that when I see it, chump. 
AT: i DON’T WANT YOU TO MOCK ME ANYMORE, 
AT: i DON’T KNOW IF MY CONFIDENCE IS REAL, oR WHAT, 
AT: bUT i WOULD LIKE YOU TO STOP SAYING STUFF LIKE THAT TO ME, 
AT: aND TO STOP SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT MY FRIEND JADE, tOO, 

This is Tavros’s way of being angry. He’s flat out saying, “OK, this is making me pretty mad.” rather than throwing a fit like people would normally do.

AG: Jade is an idiot. 
AG: A useless, 8oring no8ody. What has she done for her party other than fuck up every step of the way? What does she ever do 8ut take naps and get in trou8le? 
AG: She’s awful, and you deserve each other. Oh w8, except she h8tes you!!!!!!!! Ahahahahahahahaha. Even the 8oring pointless girl h8s you, talk a8out a guy who can’t get a 8r8k. 

Why does Vriska think Jade is so stupid? What mistakes has she made that really are straight up her fault? Most of the trolls seem to think Jade made the horrible mistake of prototyping Bec while being air-headed as usual, though Vriska knows very well that she intentionally did it. Plus, the conversation Tavros just had with Jade makes it very clear that she is an all-around more sensible person than he is. But on the other hand, Jade and Tavros do have something in common: Vriska can’t see anything in them other than a useless boring idiot. I wonder if Vriska calling Jade boring has to do with many readers finding Jade to be a dull character? Rereading these parts of Homestuck has actually boosted my opinion on Jade’s character.

AG: Ok, Tavros, I gave her credit for something, so I’ll give you credit for something too. 
AG: Your plan to control her lusus really wasn’t a 8ad idea! 

Vriska is giving Tavros credit for being like her. As I said earlier, Tavros got close to being a mini-Vriska, and she probably would’ve liked that more than anything. That really could’ve theoretically happened, but it did not, because that would be a very unsatisfying way to handle his arc. As far as the story’s concerned, Tavros becoming exactly like Vriska is totally plausible, but for the sake of this being a satisfying story, it doesn’t happen.

AG: Practicing your a8ilities is important, so when it comes down to using them for something that really matters, you know you’re ready for prime time. 
AG: I know this first hand. 
AG: I got lots and lots and LOTS of practice with your little guinea pig friend. ::::D 

Jade’s narcolepsy? That turns out to be a Vriska thing. I never got that in my first read, because it was merely mentioned in a pesterlog and as I said many times I didn’t bother reading those. I think Vriska being behind Jade falling asleep a lot could’ve been made more obvious, maybe with a page showing Vriska putting Jade to sleep over and over again or something, I don’t know. Then again, if I had just read the damn pesterlogs I would’ve understood.

AG: Like I said! Your plan was solid. 
AG: Controlling the guardian to go after Jack was a fine idea. Sure would stir some shit up! 8etter than 8eing an insignificant stuttering piece of trash all the time, I say. 
AG: And you were definitely on to something a8out doing it “irregardless” (lol) of her wishes. 
AG: 8ecause it’s for her own good! That’s what winners do. They do what is right for someone they care a8out even if the other person does nothing 8ut 8itch and moan and act ungr8ful a8out it. 8etter you learned l8 than never. 
AG: In fact, I would go as far as saying that if you went ahead with her plan against her wishes, it MIGHT just earn you a smidgen of respect from me. 
AG: We’ll see. 

As Jade said, the enemies are now on par with Bec so controlling him is very risky. But it’s exactly the kind of thoughtless thing Vriska would do, so of course she’d approve.

AG: There’s really just one catch. 
AT: oH, 
AT: wHAT’S THAT,
AG: The catch is it’s not going to work! 
AT: wHAT ISN’T, 
AG: Are you even listening to me? Man, clear the Rufio wax out of your ears. 
AG: You couldn’t sic the guardian on Noir even if you were inclined. Not even if I were to MAKE you inclined! :::;) 
AT: uHH, 
AT: wHY, 
AG: 8ecause you are dealing with a pro here. I already thought of that. 
AG: I thought of everything!

Vriska’s going to say some messed up stuff about how much stuff she was behind.

AG: The guardian is not going to attack the agents who engineered him in the first place. 
AG: Or who I should say were “encouraged” (lol) to engineer him.

That’s an interesting thought, Bec feeling the same loyalty to the agents who created him that he does to Jade, although Vriska’s claim above can’t be taken as fact, merely as what she presumes.

As for first guardians being created, it’s almost certain the agents would’ve created Bec the same way regardless. In the trolls’ session, I’m pretty sure Derse agents and/or the Black Queen stole the books some of the trolls wrote code in and used them to make Doc Scratch, which we can assume is how first guardians are typically made. In the alpha kids’ session it’s kind of more fuzzy, but I think the Condesce used Jane to do what’s needed to create GCat; it’s unusual, but then again, the alpha session is a very special case. Vriska is pretty much retroactively making herself behind certain events, so this whole stretch of pages exploring how much stuff Vriska is behind almost feels like retconning existing events to make them Vriska things.

AG: Remem8er, I already have a lot of experience getting these simple minded agents to march to my drum 8eat. 
AG: I was exiling them left and right in our session! I’m an expert at this 8y now. 

So was Vriska part of how the Midnight Crew got exiled to Alternia? It’s made pretty clear how Spades Slick got exiled, but the others were all pretty indeterminate. But I never realized that Vriska is suggesting that she may have exiled the other three agents.

To the right there’s a crow. I thought none of the birds in Dave’s house entered the game with him but I guess I was wrong. Would those birds be survivors of Earth’s apocalypse? That would be pretty neat.

AG: Don’t you think this is how it should 8e? Shouldn’t the greatest player leave her fingerprints on every step of the rise to power of her ultim8 nemesis? 
AT: wOW, nO, tHAT’S, 
AT: i DON’T EVEN KNOW HOW TO SAY ALL THE WAYS i THINK THAT IS CRAZY,

Tavros is right on here. Two posts ago I talked about why Vriska thinking she should be behind her nemesis’s creation is dumb, and I wasn’t exactly sure how to say what I wanted to say. This is the case for a lot of what I write in this post series. 

Here’s DD about to kill the doomed Dave whose corpse Dave saw and threw into lava. It’s one thing seeing his body, but it’s another thing seeing him about to be killed, and yet another thing to see that while we learn that it’s a Vriska thing. Knowing that Vriska was involved in this Dave’s death gives new meaning to the narration line when Dave saw his corpse, “Whoever took those books was a pretty cold blooded dude.”

AG: I have every angle covered already. The human session is on full Serket lockdown. Any effort you make to disrupt my plans will 8e laugha8le, just like everything you have ever done in your life. 

Tavros controlling Becsprite seemed like a really bad idea at first, but when you compare it to the vast mass of horseshit Vriska’s been doing it’s not all that bad. Vriska saying her session is on “full Serket lockdown” is legitimately scary, even if it’s coming from Vriska.

AT: oKAY, tHEN, 
AT: aLL OF YOUR USUAL INSULTING THINGS ASIDE, mY TAKE ON THIS IS, 
AT: tHAT YOU CREATED OUR IMPOSSIBLY HARD BAD GUY, wHO WANTS TO KILL US, 
AT: aND BY ASSOCIATION, i GUESS THAT MAKES, 
AT: yOU THE BAD GUY TOO, 
AT: iNSTEAD OF A GOOD GUY WHO’S JUST MEAN, 

That’s pretty much exactly what I reasoned in the paragraph about Vriska two posts ago. Tavros is showing that deep down, he realizes that the self-insertion thing is stupid, especially the way Vriska’s doing it.

AT: aND THAT BEING THE CASE, 
AT: eVEN THOUGH i’M TERRIFIED OF YOU, 
AT: aND nOT AS STRONG, 
AT: oR REAL CONFIDENT, 
AT: oNLY MOSTLY FAKE CONFIDENT, 
AG: Yeeeeeeees? 
AG: Go on. 
AT: i THINK, 
AT: i AM GOING TO HAVE TO STOP YOU, 
AG: Yeah! That’s the spirit. 
AG: Pretty weakslime threat there, 8ut it’s a start. 
AG: Tell you what. 
AG: If you can find me in this la8, you can have at me. 
AG: I’ll even give you a free shot! No funny 8usiness or anything. 
AT: oK, 
AT: tHEN, 
AT: hERE i COME, 
AG: I’ll 8e w8ing. ❤

The worst part of this bit is that Vriska later kills Tavros instead of letting him have a shot. More on that when, well, that actually happens.

Vriska views Jade, who is looking at the fourth wall in her lab, on Trollian, and she somehow mind-controls Hussie’s self-insert as he rides a dragon who barfs on bullies Neverending Story-style, which is a weird random scene that’s mostly there to fulfill a prophecy. When Vriska later saw Hussie around in dream bubbles, I wonder, did she recognize him as the guy she saw through the fourth wall?

This post is getting pretty long so I’ll stop here, even though I only covered half as many pages as I usually would. See you next time as we go through mind-wrenching coinflip timeline stuff that’s still frequently debated about today.

>> Part 38: Ascensions and Failures Thereof

Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 36: Lava Is Not Better Than Snow

Introduction 

Part 35 | Part 36 | Part 37 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 9 of 32

Pages 2997-3047 (MSPA: 4897-4947)

9/24/2019: I’ve been going through every blog post of mine in chronological order to fix up the formatting for WordPress and I have to say, I actually enjoyed rereading this post much more than the prior ones. It’s probably the first Homestuck post of mine that I think holds up.

From where we left off, Jade gets out of bed and it does appear that maybe it is indeed a sprite magic bed.

In a callback to Bec’s debut flash. Jade sees a Bec-prototyped imp and strifes it in an interactive page.

The music in this minigame, titled Sunslammer, is one of the best songs in the whole comic. It’s the kind of music that only when you listen to it on loop do you realize how awesome it is. Seriously I’ve listened to that song (and many others from Homestuck) on extended loop. As for the flash itself, it’s a lot of fun seeing a Bec imp teleport Jade around the whole incipisphere—yet another ramification of Bec prototyping himself, in action. It also has the same “review of what’s going on everywhere” feel that walkarounds have: the windy thing on LOWAS, Bec imps thrashing John’s bedroom, Rose no longer in the study room, three instances of Dave seeing Jade, how huge the kids’ houses are, and a bit of a tour of LOFAF.

Becsprite blows up the imp, and I guess this implies that Becsprite is indeed stronger than plain Bec? I’m not sure.

Jade thanks Becsprite, who responds with:

repeated nine times.

The seizure gifs do a great job at showing how enigmatic Bec is, even as a sprite. If Homestuck was a TV show, then Bec making mysterious noises* wouldn’t have the same effect, and if it was a book, neither would narrative text like “Becsprite responded to Jade with an incomprehensible deafening noise that defies description.” If Homestuck was a graphic novel it might work to put the seizure imagery in  Becsprite’s speech bubble, but it might make people  think it shows Bec thinking of the green sun, not to mention that it couldn’t be animated to get the full effect unless it’s online (or maybe if it uses lenticular printing, but that still doesn’t get the full effect). Speaking in seizure pictures really brings to light what Hussie is conveying through this spritelog: Bec is a very unearthly being.

* For reference, Let’s Read Homestuck adapts Bec’s “dialogue” by making it a warpy-sounding edit of a dog barking.

Note how much of the scene is obscured by green magic.
This same picture was shown back in Act 3 and that was the best look we got at Jade after entering the medium.

As we saw back in Act 3, PM contacts Jade at this point, but before she can say much Becsprite blows up the command station. I take this scene as demonstration how protective Bec is to Jade. He won’t let a stranger’s voice intrude into her mind, leading to another pattern Jade breaks: (18) Jade doesn’t get to have an exile command her. The kid-exile pattern is done pretty out of order regardless: first John, then Jade from PM’s perspective, then Rose, then John again, then Jade from her own perspective, then John some more, and finally Dave.

Related to this, there’s a plot hole about exiles contacting players: PM contacts Jade after she enters the game, but later she contacts John at a point where only he and Rose have entered the game. What’s up with that? A possible explanation that I just came up with is that PM’s command station synchronizes with the incipisphere’s timeline later than WV’s does. Maybe each command station works a little differently or something.

PM does some more stuff and talks with WQ about her new apparent role as a queen. I guess she’s now supposed to be a queen but isn’t really feeling it? Homestuck sort of has a thing of characters rejecting archetypes and stuff like that.

Jade goes to the now-empty grand foyer and goes upstairs to see her atrium in ruins. Then she talks to Dave.

TG: hey 
TG: welcome to the medium finally i guess 
GG: hey!!!!! 
GG: last time i talked to you i was asking for help and you were just nakking at me 
GG: what was up with that bro??? 
TG: ok i dont know what youre talking about it was probably just some horrorterror chirping at you during one of your nap bubble mindfucks 

So Dave never figured out that a crocodile stole his shades while he was asleep?

GG: in the heat of the fray i didnt notice you! 
GG: where were you? 
TG: three places 
TG: i remember seeing you twice before in different locations 
TG: but at the moment im standing in the middle of this snowy goddamn field freezing my shit off 
TG: just wanted to see if you were cool 
GG: yeah im fine, thanks for asking! 
GG: what do you mean you remember seeing me? 
GG: was i jumping through time or something? 

Doesn’t Jade know anything about how her dog’s powers work? She should be familiar with Bec’s teleportation abilities so—wait never mind. Dave claiming to have seen her multiple times must’ve made her think that.

TG: no i was 
TG: this is future me 
TG: one of the future mes that is 
GG: youre from the future? 
TG: yeah jade thats what future me means 
GG: :p 
GG: john told me you have been doing some time traveling 
TG: yeah 
GG: that is….. 
GG: really really awesome! 
TG: its ok 

Like John, Jade thinks that powers like this are super crazy awesome, while Dave and Rose shrug it off. Three years later the situation is similar: Dave refuses to time travel, while John remarks at one point that screwing with past Terezi in the retcon mission is actually pretty fun.

TG: hey its pretty fucking cold 
GG: i knoooooow 
GG: it is a really neat place but its freeeeezing 😮 
TG: so im gonna go some place warm be back in a while later 
— turntechGodhead [TG] ceased pestering gardenGnostic [GG] — 
GG: wait! 
GG: dave!! 
GG: uuugh stupid lousy cool dudes 
— turntechGodhead [TG] began pestering gardenGnostic [GG] — 
TG: ok im back 
TG: an hour later 
GG: an hour? 
TG: an hour for me 
TG: a second for you 
TG: i ran around for an hour got my ass some place warm 
TG: went back in time 
TG: picked up where we left off 
GG: :O 
GG: i can not believe how cool that is 
GG: this is me believing neither that, nor its coolness :O 

Homestuck loves exploiting time travel to do cool things. Not just cool things as in changing the past or getting a sneak peek of the future, but things you don’t usually see in time travel stories. When writing this, I thought of all the media I’ve read or watched involving time travel, including a book I read around age 10 called The Comic Book Kid. Typically characters will travel through time to make wrong things go right, more often than not for their own personal gain, but they’ll make a fatal mistake and they’ll have to hop around around the whole time continuum to set it all right. But while Homestuck has done that kind of thing sometimes, I don’t think there are many other works that use time travel for such things as keeping tabs on everyone, immediately resuming conversations where they left off after you take an hour off, or making way more money than you should be able to within a limited timeframe.

TG: i guess im sorta used to it by now i dont think of hours going by the same way anymore 
TG: i mean 
TG: they are my hours but not everyone elses theyre kind of like private hours all to myself 
TG: while everyone else is sort of in slow motion stuck in the thick of the alpha 
GG: hmmmm… 
GG: i dont know if i get that but ok! 

That’s a pretty interesting way to think about being the time traveler of the group. Homestuck very often puts an unconventional perspective on common tropes and archetypes.

TG: well yeah 
TG: my thing is time yours is space 
TG: pretty different things 
TG: you GET things about space i dont 
TG: or you will 
GG: i will? 
TG: yup 

Dave really seems to like thinking of players’ aspects as indicating which sort of topics they’ll inherently understand. One could argue that Jade already gets some things about space, because she’s stated to be something of a science nerd, even though as I noted last post, her knowledge of science isn’t shown much in action.  A commonly noted problem with Homestuck is that characters will be stated to have certain interests that are hardly shown in action. Hussie clearly has recognized this problem and taken steps to amend it: in recent updates, characters have brought up John’s interest and lack of skill in programming, Dave’s interest in paleontology, Rose’s longtime interest in psychology, and various other character interests that hadn’t been brought up in a while.

GG: im so horribly unprepared for this…. i have never even seen snow before, can you believe that!!! 
TG: pretty believable since you lived on guam or wherever the fuck 
TG: and also inside an active volcano 
GG: derp yes dave that is so where i lived 
GG: that is as biographically accurate as it gets about me! 

In that tangent back in an Act 4 post about the kids being or not being sarcastic where I talked about how it isn’t necessarily accurate to say that the Derse kids are very often sarcastic while the Prospit ones never are, this bit came to mind.

TG: well ive never seen [snow] either now that i think about it 
GG: no??? 
TG: no 
GG: isnt it great????? 
TG: nah 
TG: lavas better 
GG: lava is NOT better than snow 😐 
TG: yeah it is lava and skeletal skyscrapers all melting and shit how is that not way cooler than 
TG: snow and 
TG: like 
TG: more snow 
GG: you cant play in lava, its no fun 
GG: you can only die in lava 
TG: snows a big chilly carpet of nobody gives a shit 
TG: like old man winter spread around his nasty mayonnaise and turned the landscape into his personal asshole sandwich 
GG: eww dave no 
TG: when i look around all i see is the miles of unharnessed snowmen im just too damn cool to build 
GG: no this is so lame 
GG: i am hearing an insane and stupid guy say stupid idiot things while wearing dumb sunglasses for lame morons! 

I love this argument over whether lava or snow is better. It’s one of these moments that makes you remember that these are goddamn 13-year-old kids. By the way, I’m with Jade here.

TG: whoa jade with the fucking haymaker 
TG: i need to go look for my teeth on the canvas as soon as shit stops spinning and there stops being like ten of you 
GG: heheheh 
GG: why dont we play in the snow later 

Borderline flirting. 

GG: as soon as you get some………………………………
TG: time 
GG: ………………………… 
TG: time 
GG: ………………. 
TG: time then shades 
GG: ………. 
TG: time 
GG: …………… 
TG: time/shades lets go 
GG: ……. 
GG: …. 
GG: … 
TG: oh my fucking god 
GG: .. 
GG: . 
GG: time 8) 

I love how Dave repeatedly finishes Jade’s dramatic pun but she goes on with it anyway.

TG: no dont bother john
TG: hes on like his fuckin 
TG: wind mission or whatever 
TG: getting all his ridiculous magic cyclone powers on and realizing his huge blowy destiny 
TG: as the chump of shoosh 
GG: john has magic cyclone powers? 
TG: almost 
GG: whoa…. 
GG: you guys are all so much better than me, i feel sooooo lame 

At this point Dave could’ve said something like, “hey you always knew stuff about the future and i never could figure out for the life of me how in the hell that worked.” But instead he says:

TG: we all start out somewhere
TG: remember how i was scrambling up that tower to get that egg like an idiot
TG: what the hell was i doing
TG: i was like goddamn pooh bear in a tree reaching up his fat fuckin pooh paw for some mother fuckin honey
GG: heehee
TG: so even though im awesome now at one point i was plausibly likened to an autistic stuffed animal
TG: and you even knew what to do
TG: you told me how it worked all christopher robinning my ignorant ass about that egg
TG: but i was all like IM A LITTLE BLACK RAIN CLOUD BITCH WATCH ME CLIMB
TG: so maybe youre startin out with more sense than me 

Here, Dave is doing what I like best about him: giving sincere encouragement and advice while keeping his usual sense of humor. Dante Basco once did a dub of these lines, and it sounds like Bobby Hill thinking he’s super cool by using a lot of swear words.

TG: in any case egbert lost his computer and game disc
TG: so he cant do anything for you anyways
GG: oh no
GG: did he lose it in a magic cyclone?
TG: probably some shit like thats what happened 

I just realized that John lost his Sburb discs when they sank in the oil, meaning that he can’t play Sburb at all on the computer. The character who was looking forward to playing the game the most is the one who got the least amount of time to actually play it on his computer.

TG: but youre not completely screwed
TG: we just have to think outside the box here 

Dave’s about to devise something clever. Cleverness is another thing to like about Dave’s character, as I’ve mentioned a few times back, like in the roboslap scene.

Jade deploys the Intellibeam Laserstation in Dave’s room, and we’re about to learn what it does.

GG: what does this thing do? 
TG: its mostly pretty stupid and useless 
TG: but itll come in handy here 
TG: it reads captcha codes 
GG: on the back of cards? 
TG: yeah 
GG: but 
GG: we can already read those! 
TG: some are too garbled and complicated 
TG: the human eye cant decipher them 
TG: needs sophisticated scanning technology 
TG: and artificial intelligence to figure it out 
GG: hmm 
GG: but isnt the whole point of captchas that only humans can read them? 
GG: and not robots??? 
TG: yeah well 
TG: thats why this is so dumb

Here’s Homestuck’s video game satire aspect again. Some video games will have functionalities that are completely illogical. Here, in a comic about a video game, characters talk about how dumb it is that a game with a sophisticated interface has something that goes against logic. What’s even better is that within the comic’s universe, this isn’t just a video game device that does such a thing, perhaps as an expensive way to duplicate rare items; rather, it’s literally a robot that reads captchas in case humans can’t.

TG: im duplicating my server disc
GG: oh…. 
GG: to give it to john? 
TG: nah i told you were not bothering john 
TG: hes got shit to do 
TG: ill just install it 
GG: but… 
GG: you are already roses server player! 
GG: and john is mine! 
GG: not to mention im yours!!! 
GG: can you really be a server player to your own server player? 
TG: dont see why not 
TG: we have to get creative here 
TG: this games already so far off the rails what else is there to do but improvise 
GG: but i guess 
GG: i thought that john sort of….. 
GG: HAD to be my server? you know? 
TG: well he was 
TG: he got you in didnt he 
TG: but now hes not 
TG: been a change of plans 
TG: time to roll with it

More Dave cleverness. This bit demonstrates something about the kids I’ve brought up before: the Prospit dreamers have it in their minds that they need to follow the “rules”, but the Derse dreamers don’t. When I play video games I’ll always try to play the way it was meant to be played, but I know plenty of people who don’t.

Jade pattern breaking count: (19) Dave takes over as her server player, breaking the chain of kids connecting in the order they’re introduced.

TG: thisll be the disc i use for your connection 
TG: while the original will stay bound to roses connection 
GG: so you will be the server for BOTH us ladies??? 
GG: you just keep getting smoother, i cant handle all this smoothness 
TG: well technically 
TG: i will be your server 
TG: and past me will stay as roses server 
TG: which is to say present me will 
TG: the one in the black suit 
GG: ohh… 
GG: i guess that makes sense 

Dave clearly isn’t afraid to exploit the game mechanics to do things that ordinarily wouldn’t be done. Each of the four main characters has their own way of getting through the game: Dave exploits the quirks of the game, Rose analyzes everything intensively and completely rejects her supposed role, Jade uses tricks to keep things simple, and John just straight out progresses through like any video game.

Dave deploys Jade’s new alchemiter and immediately gives it all the cool upgrades. Jade is commanded to alchemize stuff already, but the narration’s like, haha nope. Part of the narration on that page only made sense to serial readers: it’s kind of saying that Jade’s alchemy binge won’t happen until Christmas.

Why do characters always sleep on piles of the most uncomfortable things?

We then focus on present Dave, and we’re reminded that he woke up when Jade shot an imp and then disappeared.

Davesprite killed some big fuckers offscreen.

TT: How was the nap? 
TG: weird 
TG: and kind of boring 
TG: i was in your dream room for a while spying on you 
TG: being all creepy and dream duplicitous and shit 
TT: It’s ok. 
TT: I was being similarly wake duplicitous. 
TG: whats with your book collection 
TG: or 
TG: dream book collection 
TG: all your books are bizarre and terrible 
TT: No, my books are great. 
TT: I can recommend some good titles for the next time you’re asleep. 
TG: nah 
TG: but yeah i understand defending your collection i guess if you were in my dream room and talking shit about my awesome dream portraits of dream stiller and dream snoop or whatever wed have to have a fucking talk 

This is what I love about Dave and Rose’s interactions. They pretty much always snark about each other’s tastes, and either one can just as well get the one-up.

TT: Did you do anything on the moon besides rifle through my belongings? 
TT: Such as remove your shades and turn your gaze Ringward, by any chance? 
TG: oh 
TG: yeah 
TG: i did 
TT: What did you see? 
TG: horrible things 
TT: Horribleterrible? 
TG: yeah 
TG: it was like 
TG: peering through the dark portal of an eldritch red lobster 
TG: and scoping out its all you can eat seafood buffet 
TG: and 
TG: when i saw them 
TG: their voices became clearer 
TT: What were they saying? 
TG: i couldnt really focus on anything specific 
TG: but 
TG: in totality 
TG: im pretty sure it was 
TG: like 
TT: ? 
TG: a plea for help
TT: That’s good. 
TG: no it was disturbing 

Often, Rose thinks something is cool but everyone else thinks it’s creepy and disturbing or really boring and strange. I guess that’s sort of the deal with her. She thinks adult Dirk is a cool and interesting guy but all the others think he’s a creep.

Also, Rose and Feferi totally could’ve chatted up about how awesome nightmare squidmonsters are.

First Rose had a red glow, then her dream self had a black glow, and now she has a magenta glow. What is it with Rose and differently-colored glows?

TT: You’re going to have to help them.
TT: Even if you don’t like them.
TT: They’re being massacred.
TT: Presently, already, and still to come. 

Lord English foreshadowing. At this point, Lord English is still mostly a Chekhov’s gunman since he doesn’t have that much clear significance yet.

TT: It is what it sounds like.
TT: A huge sun out in the literal middle of nowhere, and it is bright green.
TT: It is simply,
TT: The Green Sun.
TG: how big
TG: i need a sense of scale here
TG: is it like the size of our sun
TG: or bigger
TG: or is it only as big as like
TG: planet fucking jupiter
TT: It is nearly twice the mass of our universe.
TG: ok thats pretty fucking big
TG: see how important that contextualization was now i know how fucking impressed i should be
TG: i mean hopy shit thats huge 

There’s a recurring pattern with Dave. Things will ironically happen to him, and despite how much he loves irony, he is not amused. In Act 1 Dave joked about how pointless it is to give a sense of scale for meteors, but here he found it legitimately helpful to know how big the Green Sun is. Other examples are the thing of yellow liquid spilling on his turntables, his apple juice haunting him (what he calls Chekhov’s juice), or him crying (because of onions) when he claimed months back that he doesn’t cry.

TG: so whats The Tumor do
TG: i mean the tumor
TG: jesus can we stop with the fancy colored text bullshit
TT: I guess so.
TT: I thought it was more fun that way.
TG: well ok you can keep doing it then
TT: Thanks.
TT: <black>The Tumor</black> is quite a large growth at the center of the battlefield.
TT: [John] won’t be able to remove it without fully realizing his abilities.
TG: ok cool what is it
TT: Can you promise you won’t tell him?
TT: It would probably make him more nervous than he needs to be if he knew.
TG: ok i wont say anything 

“Hey, let’s pointlessly hide information from John again, even though we both thought it was stupid when Jade did that about her future sight.” In all seriousness, at least Rose has good reason not to tell John.

TT: Plus, I have other sources.
TT: One in particular has been quite illuminating.
TG: what
TT: I’ve been referring to him as an informant, when people ask.
TT: Which isn’t often.
TG: what you mean a troll
TT: No.
TT: It’s a man who exists in another universe.
TT: He wants to die.
TG: sounds like a really credible dude sign me up for trusting everything he says
TT: Only as credible as the omniscient tend to be.
TG: oh so he knows everything
TT: Yeah, I think that’s what omniscient means.
TT: But maybe I’ll ask him about that, since he’s the omniscient one.
TG: even if he is omniscient which he probably isnt what if hes just lying
TT: He says he doesn’t lie.
TT: For some reason, I believe him about that.
TT: He’s a convincing fellow. 

IRONY AGAIN. Rose explicitly hates being a pawn—that’s kind of a thing about her—but ends up used as one anyway. This parallels her with Vriska, her fellow light player.

TG: so when do i do my thing
TG: make this map
TG: which i guess is just like
TG: a solid black piece of paper
TG: this is going to be fucking stupid isnt it
TT: If there’s one thing you have more than any of us, it’s time.
TT: So, whenever you like.
TT: As long as conventionally speaking, it’s quite soon.
TG: alright
TG: so
TG: dog it as long as possible
TG: then travel back to about now and go to sleep 

How does Dave’s dream self work with time travel? Do all alpha instances of Dave asleep any given point control his dream self? That actually would work pretty well.

I left out lots of parts of this conversation, so for reference, Rose plans on navigating the Furthest Ring to plant the Tumor bomb in the Green Sun and she needs Dave to make a map.

TT: And if you have trouble going to sleep, maybe you can ask your patron troll to trick the telepathic one into putting you to sleep again.
TG: what
TT: Each of us seems to have a troll infatuated with helping us. Haven’t you noticed?
TG: no 

Here’s another notable trait in Rose: her tendency to recognize and expect patterns. I should’ve mentioned it in the post with her conversation with Jade where she asks if she, too, has subconscious writing on her walls knowing that John has such writing. This is also the origin of the term “patron troll”, a term that’s also used by fans for the troll corresponding with someone’s zodiac sign.

TT: What about the psychopath who’s currently helping you?
TG: oh yeah terezi
TG: no shes cool
TT: Isn’t that camaraderie blossoming into some sort of interspecies whatever?
TG: its blossoming into an interspecies partnership in incredibly shitty cartooning 

This is once again reminiscent of Karkat constantly denying a relationship with Terezi. But unlike Karkat, Dave freely admits to chatting with her and thinking she’s cool; he doesn’t deny it as strongly, and yet, he doesn’t imply it as strongly either.

TG: what do you mean get her to trick someone into putting me asleep again
TG: when did that happen
TT: Just now.
TG: who did that
TT: That would be John’s patron troll.
TG: god
TG: fuckin trolls
TG: too many of them who can even keep track of this shit
TG: which ones yours
TG: is it the absurd juggalo one that would be hilarious
TT: There’s a juggalo one?
TG: yeah see what i mean 

If you think about it, most of the trolls would make for hilarious patron trolls. That’s sort of the thing with the trolls: each has this weird funny thing about them.

Rose goes on to talk to Kanaya.

GA: Since The Gap Between Your Present Moment And The Implementation Of Your Mystifying Self Destruction Continues To Narrow
GA: This Will Be The Last Conversation In Which I Attempt To Talk You Out Of It Nicely
TT: I explained this.
TT: The intent isn’t true self sacrifice.
GA: First Of All Youre Underestimating The Gravity Of A Dream Death
GA: Its A Pretty Serious Thing Okay
GA: And Dream Selves Are Important To A Person In Ways That Arent Always Obvious
GA: I Think Youre Being Frivolous But Thats Not Really The Sentiment Reinforcing The Exoskeleton Of My Argument 

This whole debate about Rose’s mission brings to light something she and Kanaya have in common: they are more sensible and knowledgeable than most in many aspects (avoiding nonsense for instance), but at the same time spectacularly naive. Both of them have a good array of moments like this: for Rose, blindly following the orders of space gods and omniscient creeps; for Kanaya, thinking it’s a good idea to just hatch the matriorb in the meteor amidst hiding from Jack and early in Murderstuck, or knocking out Karkat when he specifically says all he wants is to make some kind of contribution. This might be thought of as a way the two complement each other.

GA: Your Hubris Is Really Astonishing
GA: Easily Twice The Mass Of A Universe I Think
GA: That It Hasnt Collapsed Upon Itself Into A Tiny Lavender Singularity Is The Most Striking Marvel Paradox Space Has Coughed Up Yet
TT: Maybe it did?
TT: Maybe that’s what went wrong.
TT: We figured it out!
GA: No Please Stop
GA: Humor Wont Deflect My Really Big And Important Tirade Okay
GA: You Are Investing Too Much Confidence In Evil Gods Who Oppose Skaia And Your True Purpose And
GA: I Cant Abide That
GA: And
GA: As Difficult As This Is For Me To Confess
GA: I Think Your Plan Is Very Dangerous
GA: And So Are You 

FORESHADOWING FORESHADOWING FORESHADOWING. Also, like their last conversation we saw, this is demonstrating their status as (sorry) inversions of each other. Kanaya calls the Horrorterrors “evil gods who oppose Skaia”, but it seems pretty wrong to think that. They aren’t any more or less evil than Skaia is, and they certainly don’t oppose it.

TT: Oh?
GA: Yes
GA: And
GA: Im Afraid I Am Going To Have To Devote All My Efforts To Stopping You 

It’s weird reading this when you consider that eventually those two are pretty much the only romantic relationship in Homestuck that became sturdy and stayed that way.

I’m pretty sure part of this picture, the Chekhov’s wand and the aura surround it, is ripped from Harry Potter.

TT: I’m sorry to hear that, Kanaya.
TT: What did you have in mind for this new and exciting adversarial phase of our relationship?
GA: Im So Glad You Asked
GA: You See
GA: I Have Been Training A Powerful Wizard
TT: !
GA: Yes Your Shout Pole Is Like A Tower Broadcasting Your Fear Across The Ring And You Are Right To Be Afraid
GA: I Have Commissioned None Other Than The Legendary Prince Of Hope And I Am Teaching Him The Ways Of White Sorcery
GA: I Have Observed Your Methods And You Will Come To The Most Unwelcome Realization That All Of Your Guile And Cunning Has Finally Backfired
GA: This Noble Magician Of Pure Light Will Serve As The Counterpoint To Your Arcane Debauchery
GA: He Will Hunt You Down And Goodness And Hope Will Prevail 

[…]

GA: Maybe At This Point I Should Clarify This Is All A Big Joke 

The joke here is largely self-parody on both ends, something that Hussie is fond of doing. Rose did this kind of thing in her conversation with John where she was all like “What are jokes? What is happy?” It’s also making fun of Eridan, the trolls’ pretentious toolbag.

GA: I Mean To Say
GA: The Gesture Of Hostility In This Case Was The Joke
GA: I Did In Fact “Train” This Character
GA: I Made Him A Wand To Shut Him Up
TT: Wait, you did? Really?
GA: He Wouldnt Stop Harassing Me For Your “Secrets”
TT: That’s incredible. Well done. 

Yeah it is pretty funny … at least until the wand turns out to be a serious murder weapon Eridan uses in a fit of rage to injure Sollux, kill Feferi, and temporarily kill Kanaya herself. This brings Kanaya’s naive side to light, and makes her subsequent murder of Eridan even more of a relief.

GA: Hes The One With The Royalty Complex And Speaks With All The Extra Vees And Doubleyous
TT: Oh, I knew exactly who you were talking about from the start.
GA: Okay
TT: I must say, this little project pleases me.
TT: Do keep me apprised of all further developments.
GA: Okay I Will 

As I just said, the wand later bites Kanaya in the ass. I’m imagining her and Rose, after meeting in person, discussing this wand incident, and probably regret it to an extent.

TT: At least until my looming grimdarkdeath steals me away.
GA: Uh
GA: Yeah That
GA: Is Still Something That I Dont Really Want To Joke About
GA: I Hope That Came Across As A Sincere Statement

This exchange ends with a reminder of the ominous future blackout. I’ve seen readers deduce early on that the elder gods will possess Rose, which isn’t that hard to guess.

Another 50 pages, so I’ll stop here. See you next time as I say a fuck ton of stuff about Vriska, and about Tavros.

>> Part 37: I Killed Your Grandpa And I Like You

Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 35: Backwards Logic and Nightmare Faces

Introduction

Part 34 | Part 35 | Part 36 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 8 of 32

Pages 2942-2996 (MSPA: 4842-4896)

Continuing the exile arc, WV recognizes the Bec-shaped base, and only then does he remember that he had previously met the boy he commanded a while back. How come he only recognizes John now? PM recognized both John and Jade when she saw them on her command screen.

John sees WV? in the dream he told Rose about and then wakes up and does stuff we already saw. WV returns to commanding John as he promised way back in Act 2.

The whole scene is one of those moments where exile commands are shown on scenes we’ve already seen; such things are often meant to show us that exiles were behind certain things we’ve already seen, which reminds me of how Vriska is behind some stuff that happened in the kids’ session. I don’t think John mentioned having the exile voice return in his conversation with Rose, which makes sense because John couldn’t “hear” the voice.

John doesn’t listen to WV’s commands so he presses caps lock despite the narration telling him not to, locking him in the command station. Here’s an exile thing I’d like to discuss. When exiles give commands, apparently they’re sent to both characters and their own narrative prompts. The mechanics behind this are kind of a meta thing and aren’t really explained that clearly.

Before becoming a dog, Jack always used super deadly red shit.
After becoming a dog, he uses super deadly green shit.
Does this have to do with red and green being kind of dual arc colors?

AG: Psssssssst. 
AG: Hey 8rave leader. 
AG: John! 
AG: Stop ignoring me. My messages should receive top priority. 

Vriska is hilariously self-aggrandizing. This self-aggrandization is later turned into a serious problem that’s discussed, which I guess is another Cerebus syndrome thing.

AG: I was the one who put you to sleep. 
EB: you were? 
AG: Yeah! 
EB: um… 
EB: you can do that? 
AG: Yes, that seems to 8e the limit to what I can do to your primitive species. 
AG: I guess our 8rains don’t really work the same way? Who knows! 
EB: hmm. 
EB: what do you mean, “limit”? 
EB: are you saying you can usually do more than that? 
AG: Duh! So much more, John. I have a lot of gr8 powers. 
AG: When we have more time, I will tell you all a8out them. 

A lot of great powers? Her thing is just mind control. It can be exploited to do various things but it doesn’t count as multiple powers. EDIT: Maybe she’s indirectly referencing the fact that she’s a god tier, which hasn’t been revealed yet.

EB: if you’re seeing my future, and you know those things are the outcome, then why are you going back and… 
EB: i guess, involving yourself with these events? see what i mean? 
AG: Oh John, this should 8e so o8vious to you 8y now. 
AG: You are going to 8ecome a gr8 hero, that much is sure. 
AG: 8ut I want to 8e the one responsi8le for it! 
AG: And now I am pretty much guaranteed to 8e. 
AG: ::::) 
EB: ok, that… 
EB: SORT OF makes sense, i guess. 
EB: but it’s kind of hurting my head to think about! 

Vriska’s freely admitting to her self-aggrandization thing once again. Many people do things to aggrandize themselves, but they wouldn’t admit that that’s why they’re doing it because they know it’s childish. This brings me back to how I talked about Vriska having a really childish attitude.

EB: anyway, putting me to sleep and landing me in hot water is one thing… 
EB: but you sort of indirectly caused a MUCH BIGGER problem! 
EB: before i fell asleep, i was about to prototype something really ridiculous to make jack weaker. 
EB: i am pretty sure that it would have made jack lose both eyes, both arms, and give him silly blue hair, and possibly also make him be a girl? 
EB: he probably would have been pretty easy to beat!!! 

John is right, it was a very clever idea to try to prototype that armless eyeless doll. As I said last post, the doll lost its arm and eye when John picked it up, but John makes it sound like he picked the doll because it was missing an arm and eye, and I’m not sure whether or not it’s an art inconsistency.

EB: but instead, it was prototyped by jade’s first guardian dog lusus. 
EB: and now he is unstoppable! 
EB: and he becomes the one who is stirrin’ up all that trouble in your session too! 
EB: i mean, it sounds like your intentions were good, but you probably didn’t realize to what extent you were messing everything up! 
AG: Don’t 8e a8surd, John. 
AG: Of course I realized that would happen. 
AG: It was pretty much the whole point, you goof! 
EB: what???????? 
EB: vriska, why would you do that! 

Last post ended with me saying “See you next time as OH MY GOD VRISKA WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT.” I didn’t realize that what I said was pretty much John’s exact words. This all brings to mind the whole recent theme of putting up with Vriska even though she’s a toolbag. Many readers argue that this is seriously a bad thing—bad storytelling, not just regular controversial character stuff—and I agree, it puts me off sometimes—but I’m getting ahead of myself again. I promise you, I’ll have a lot to say about pretty much everything that happens after Vriska is un-killed.

AG: Listen, John. 
AG: Regardless of what I did, he is already here. 
AG: I know this consequence will 8e hard for you to accept, 8ut whenever you feel angry or confused a8out it, just repeat this to yourself. 
AG: It should 8ecome your mantra! 
AG: He is already here. 
AG: Say it, John! 

The debut of the phrase associated with both Jack and Lord English.

EB: but what does that mean! 
AG: It means what it sounds like! He’s already here!!!!!!!! 
AG: Here in our session, trying to hunt us down! Man, this should 8e elementary to you 8y now. 
AG: No matter what you or I or any of us did, Jack’s here now. That’s the reality! 
AG: And if I didn’t stop you, it wouldn’t have changed the reality for us here. We’d still 8e hiding on this rock, and he’d still 8e out there, sniffing around for us. 
AG: He wouldn’t just disappear! That’s not how this time stuff works. 
AG: All that REALLY would have happened is I would have allowed you to do something you weren’t supposed to do! 
AG: You would have prototyped with your pretty 8lue doll, 8ecause of course deep down you know you are o8sessed with me. 
AG: And then you and all your friends would exist in a splintered timeline. And you wouldn’t even 8e a8le to talk to me anymore! ::::( 
AG: And then you’d 8e doooooooomed. 
AG: I mean, more doomed than you are already. :::;) 
AG: Trust me, I am really smart. I have this all figured out. 

Some readers seriously argue that it was a good thing that Vriska involved herself in the creation of Bec Noir because otherwise it would cause a doomed timeline. Even if it was necessary to happen for all the story pieces to fit together, that doesn’t change that it’s a really really shitty thing to do, deliberately doing something that she knew would fuck everyone over. The noble thing to do would be to at least try to stop it.

EB: i don’t know if that makes sense! 
EB: i mean, it kind of does… 
EB: but something doesn’t really add up about it. 
EB: if you knew he was going to be created regardless of what anyone did… 
EB: why did you decide to involve yourself that way? 
EB: like the way you are involving yourself with me becoming a hero or whatever? 
AG: You just answered your own question! 
AG: I did it 8ecause I wanted to 8e the one responsi8le for cre8ting him. 
EB: augh! 
EB: BUT WHYYYYYYYY! 
AG: 8ecause, John. 
AG: It only makes sense that I would be the one to cre8te him. 
AG: Since I am also going to 8e the one to kill him.

This right here is the pinnacle of the fucked-up world of Vriska logic, the epitome of the field of Vriskanalysis. Vriska clearly wants to be the one who kills a bad guy, and it’s obvious why: killing a bad guy will get you recognized as a hero, and make you feel really proud of yourself. But doing the equivalent of going back in time to ensure that the bad guy would exist? That totally ruins the heroism that arises from killing a bad guy because it makes it clear you’re only doing it for your glory. But that’s just the beginning. Vriska credits herself for creating Bec Noir. Creating a villain is almost the same as being a villain, even if you intend to subsequently kill it. That doesn’t change that you knowingly caused very bad things to happen. It also destroys the point of killing a villain. Killing a villain means saving the world from a bad thing that’s happening. But if you were behind the creation of that villain, it’s nothing more than artificially giving yourself the triumphant feeling of victory at the cost of sabotaging others. Even worse, if you openly admit to doing just that, as Vriska did, then you’ll come off as even more immature because it shows that you don’t even know that doing things to glorify yourself is bad. Or in a nutshell:

EB: that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. 

John’s going to call out Vriska on pretty much what I said, but I still wanted to get that rant about why Vriska is messed up out of my system.

AG: Just 8ecause you have your whole reckoning ahead of you to kill Jack, and somehow fail, doesn’t mean you have to 8e 8itter a8out it. 
EB: i am not bitter! i just think your plan is dumb. 
EB: if he is as strong as karkat says, he will probably kill you! 
AG: Karkat doesn’t know nothing a8out anything. 
AG: He never really appreci8ted how powerful I 8ecame. No8ody did! I am easily the strongest troll 8y far. 
AG: I am also extremely lucky! That is one of my powers, John. 8eing super lucky, and making my foes super UNlucky. ::::) 
EB: er… 
EB: is luck actually a real thing? 
AG: Yes, and I’ve got all of it. I am completely untoucha8le. 
EB: you sound pretty cocky! you should be careful about that, that is totally how people have bigtime downfalls. 
EB: especially when they act kind of nefarious!!! 

Here, John recognizes Vriska as a character archetype: the powerful character who’s really arrogant and thinks all his/her plans will undoubtedly succeed but ends up failing miserably out of ignorance. It’s totally foreshadowing what’ll later happen to Vriska. Before the retcon section I would’ve just said it foreshadows Vriska’s death, but now the scope of what it foreshadows might as well be broadened. Like what happens to Aranea after her crazy plan for defeating Lord English fails. 

AG: Nope, I don’t have to 8e careful! Too lucky for caution to matter anymore. Them’s the 8r8ks! 
AG: 8ut don’t worry, once all is said and done in your session, and 8y some incredi8ly lucky 8r8k of your own you manage to survive the scratch, we might actually get the chance to meet. 
AG: And if so, assuming I haven’t gotten too 8ored w8ting around and mopped the floor with Jack already, may8e we can take him down together! 

The funny thing is, later Vriska will realize that Jack is no longer very relevant and instead have her eyes set on Lord English. This is the case for both alive Vriska and dead Vriska. She always wants to take down not just any villain, but the strongest of them all.

AG: Dig deep down inside that pink, nerdy little torso of yours, find your awesome hero mojo, and do what you’re a8out to do. 
AG: I will talk to you again after you figure it out. 
AG: 8yyyyyyyye! ❤ 
EB: wait! 

— arachnidsGrip [AG] ceased trolling ectoBiologist [EB] — 

EB: what am i about to doooooooo! 

This is a bit of irony. Vriska wants John to start figuring stuff out for himself now that he’s been trained by her, but John still wants advice from her about that. Or maybe he’s just confused.

EB: o. 
EB: there, that was a 9th o. you don’t even deserve 8!!!!!!!! 
EB: whoops…

John’s first conversation with Vriska ends with trying and failing to do the Vriska thing. This conversation with Vriska ends with trying and failing not to do the Vriska thing. If you look, John actually does the Vriska thing pretty often in this act. She rubs off on him more so than any of the other patron trolls do on their respective kids.

WV commands John, and he suddenly does a windy thing.

Apparently WV commanding John caused him to do a real windy thing and extinguish the fire. Does this have to do with the ambiguous definition of the heir class, being naturally provided with your aspect? That would be a pretty fitting definition giving the meaning of the word “heir”. I don’t know, just throwing around ideas that I definitely didn’t see people talk about during random Internet surfing.

Does Charles Dutton know stuff about Sburb?
Also, Papyrus font!

Dave reads some Charles Dutton book called Dream Bubbles which transitions us to Jade’s planet introduction flash.

“WHY IS IT ALWAYS FROGS?”
—Everyone

Jade pattern breaking count is back! (16) Unlike with the other kids, the last word of Jade’s planet’s name is obscured temporarily before it’s revealed to be “frogs”.

“I slept and saw God’s forge in frost. Its hearth was quelled, and as it cooled so swooned the verdancy it kept above. In slumber it grew a thick winter skin, white as bedsheets. In their folds the waker dreamt, her breath as steam, her touch as hot as iron, forgotten in the fire. 

Oh, that this too too solid flesh would melt, thaw and resolve itself into a dew!” 

-Acclaimed actor and sleeping prophet, Charles Dutton

Jade’s misattributed quote is not just way later than when she first made it outside (I already noted this long ago), but (17) it also consists only partly of an existing quote. The last line is from Shakespeare, but the first paragraph was made up by Hussie.

Up next is a flashback sequence, or so it seems.

This is one of the few times we see Jade’s supposed knowledge of technology in action.
Aside from the stuff that her B2 universe self did, that is.

CC: Glub glub glub glub glub! 
GG: oh…………. 
GG: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 
CC: )(ey, take it easy! 
CC: I’m not )(ere to give you a )(ard time like my buddies )(ave been. 
GG: but youre a troll 
GG: and thats what trolls do! 
GG: even when they say they wont 
GG: sometimes especially!!!!!! 
CC: Ok t)(en, you can be t)(e judge of t)(at. I won’t be long! 
CC: I’ve just come to say a couple t)(ings. 
CC: FIRST! 
CC: None of t)(is is really your fault! 
CC: T)(is is swimmingly obvious to everyone )(ere w)(o takes a glubbing moment to t)(ink about it rationally. 
CC: W)(ic)( isn’t many of us! But still. 
GG: ok….. 
GG: even though i still have no idea what youre talking about 

Feferi here is going out of her way to correct what she assumes her fellow trolls are claiming. But she’s really just confusing Jade more. I guess this might show her naive side with how she just kind of assumes the way things should go through her eyes alone.

But the mistakes really aren’t the kids’ fault. It’s just paradox space being a dick, and also arguably Vriska.

CC: I mean, your lusus jumped rig)(t in t)(ere to save you! 
CC: Just like mine did. 
CC: Well ok, mine was dead at t)(e time. 38( 
CC: And s)(e just kind of… 
CC: F-ELL IN! 
CC: Kinda drifted down like fis)(food, and POW, GL’BGOLYBSPRIT-E. 
CC: )(e)(e)(e)(e)(e)(e)(. S)(e was so funny. 

Feferi thinks squidmonster sprites are funny. Did Gl’bgolybsprite actually have a sense of humor? Or is it Feferi’s view of the world acting up again? I bet she really was just kind of a typical cryptic space tentacle monster.

CC: I wanted to glub somet)(ing -ELS-E to you well before you started playing.
CC: Just to get t)(e idea in your )(ead!
CC: I am Feferi, by t)(e way. Abdicated empress to be!
GG: ok feferi. what is it?
CC: Soon I will go to sleep and speak to t)(e gods.
CC: I will convince t)(em to establis)( a series of stable dream bubbles, w)(ere we can meet in our sleep! 

Out of context Feferi sounds like she follows some bizarre religion. But as I’ve said before, this bit is more important than you might realize, because if not for Feferi, the dream bubble system would not exist, nor would the much of the longstanding arc of trying to kill Lord English.

GG: i dont understand 
GG: whats a dream bubble? 
CC: YOU’LL S-E———-E! 38D 
GG: ugh 
GG: feferi i thought you said you were going to stop using your typing quirk! 
CC: Did I? 
CC: When?? 
GG: i dont know… im sure i remember you said that 
CC: )(mm. 
CC: Jade, t)(is is t)(e first time we )(ave ever talked! 
CC: Isn’t it??? 

Here’s where the conversation gets off the rails. First-time readers will get super confused, but rereaders will recognize this as the first of many sequences which start as a flashback but turn into a dream bubble sequence. Eventually the fun of it is not that it turns out to be a dream bubble sequence, but how it turns out to be a dream bubble sequence. There’s such oddities as Vriska turning out to be Aranea, or Dirk turning out to be the mind-wrenching smartass called Brain Ghost Dirk, and several instances of characters turning out to be doomed timeline copies.

I’m going to count all the dream bubble sequences of this kind as I progress through this post series. Right now my count is at (1) Jade and Feferi.

GG: oh 
GG: yeah it is 
GG: i dont know what i was thinking…. 
GG: i just had a major case of deja vu! 
CC: W)(at’s t)(at? 
GG: i felt like we already had this conversation 
GG: actually 
GG: it still sort of feels that way 
GG: its not going away 😮 

In my experience with deja vu, I have a moment where something happens and I SWEAR TO GOD it’s happened before, but a second later I can’t recollect such a memory at all. It’s like a brain glitch or something.

GG: so what is going on? 
GG: i dont think i am asleep…. 
GG: i am not on prospit 

Two posts ago I talked about how in her first non-Prospit dream, Jade should have been more weirded out by not dreaming on Prospit or else she’s in a subdued dream mindset. Here, she’s most certainly not in a dream mindset. I talked a bit about dreams back when Jade’s Prospit dreaming was first introduced, and how I have never lucid dreamed but it sounds incredibly awesome. Three and a half months later and I still haven’t.

GG: so this is a dream?
CC: It is a dream, and a memory. It is the past, brought back to life by a witch! It’s all those things. 

I personally buy into the theory that a witch bends the rules of her aspect. Both Jade and Feferi exemplify this very well if you think about it.

Jade sees Feferi in person and…

GG: why are you here! 
GG: are you asleep too? 
CC: Nope! 
CC: I woke up from my nap a while ago. 
CC: Remember how I woke up and then messaged you? You had just had a bad dream! 
CC: And I told you there was nothing to be scared of. 
CC: Which there isn’t! 
GG: oh yeah 
GG: i do remember that 
GG: then why are you here now?

This is some CREEPY SHIT here.

CC: Because, stupid. 
CC: I’M D——EAD!

This foreshadows Feferi’s death very heavily, but when it actually happens, it still comes as a shock to readers. Think about it: this scene spoils to readers that Feferi will die.

Why is Jade’s bed suddenly white and green? Is it a sprite magic bed now?

Jade wakes up and notes that she has to stop falling asleep.

This is a much shorter post than my last several, but I’m sticking to the 50 pages thing so I’ll stop here. Besides, it’s not like this kind of thing hasn’t happened before, with how my first few posts about the trolls arc were pretty long but the next few weren’t.

See you next time as we are introduced to the Intellibeam Laserstation, the most important thing in Homestuck by far.

>> Part 36: Lava Is Not Better Than Snow

Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 34: Villain Caninification Station

Introduction

Part 33 | Part 34 | Part 35 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 7 of 32

Pages 2891-2941 (MSPA: 4791-4841)

“The villain is a FUCKING DOG WEARING SUNGLASSES.”
—Andrew Hussie

Back to Jack’s duel with a wicked rad dude, his creepy puppet, and his bird son/brother, we get some panels like the one above that are creepy but crazy awesome. See, if this lightning ninja freak is fighting a villain, that’s when he’s pretty cool, like an impossibly rad character from Street Fighter or something.

This is a really rad panel.

Jack unleashes his red miles and this happens:

This serves to transition us to Rose, who’s in some dark room reading a book.

An early sneak peek at Skaia’s final form.

Notably, the book here (as well as a few others on Sburb lore) is written in consort hieroglyphics, the same kind used in the frog temple. Shouldn’t the English alphabet logically be used instead? After all, the English language seems to be a universal constant, as does the English alphabet (trolls can read both the Daedric alphabet and the English alphabet). I guess the hieroglyphs are for stylistic effect.

— tentacleTherapist [TT] began pestering ectoBiologist [EB] — 

MISTAKE CAUGHT! RED ALERT!!! … … OK, I’ll calm down. Homestuck, like any work of media, has its little mistakes, but this one is really kind of glaring. The screen names here should be reversed, because John is pestering Rose (for reference, he’s asking her for prototyping advice), not Rose pestering John.

EB: rose, i have a question, and i am in a hurry! 
EB: so hurry up and answer!!! 
TT: Did you know your planet was on fire? 
EB: oh. 
EB: it is? 
TT: Yes. It makes a good light for reading, actually. 
EB: ok, haha, that’s a confusing thing you said, but that topic will have to wait! 

Yeah, a fiery planet making a good light for reading is a prime example of something that only makes sense in context. “There’s a fiery storm on Jupiter, which makes a pretty nice reading light.”

TT: First of all, I should preface this conversation by saying I know exactly what you and Jade are going to do. 
EB: um… 
EB: ok? 
TT: The more of our future I’ve been allowed to see, the more I’m presented with a challenge I’m not very comfortable with. 
TT: The trolls have tipped us off about what’s to come without any regard for the consequences, as appears to be their nature.
TT: But maybe that’s why it’s worked for them. 
TT: Maybe their indiscretion mingles with the cosmic noise that is the fabric of temporal uncertainty. 
EB: bluhhhhhh… 
EB: rose, tick tick tick!!! 
TT: Sorry, John. 
TT: I’m just nervous about it. 
TT: About whether telling you what you definitely will or won’t do will alter a predetermined outcome. 

Here’s that recurring theme of withholding information again (though at least this time, Rose has a decent reason to do so). She’s being simultaneously anti-fatalistic and classically Skaia-esquely fatalistic. Sometimes, Homestuck’s plot seems to be filled with things like, “There’s this terrible thing that’s going to happen and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.” That’s simultaneously a problem with and part of the fun of Homestuck. A subset of this sort of thing would the theme of foregone conclusions, where the fun is not finding out what’ll happen, but how it’ll happen. Don’t some Shakespearean plays do that sort of thing? I don’t want to turn this into a high school English class so I’ll move on.

TT: I guess I can permit myself to tell you this, somewhat definitively. 
EB: what? 
TT: Failing to prototype the kernel is the absolute worst thing that you could possibly do. 
TT: Like, ever. 
EB: oh no! 

Here’s the weird let’s call it “semi-fatalistic” way Rose is acting again. She talks about how breaking certain rules of the game is very bad, but at the same time has this massive game-breaking quest going on.

EB: why is it so bad? 
TT: Because the battlefield will not be able to heal, and then transform. 
TT: It will not reach the stage which allows it to become ready to receive our universe. 
EB: but… 
EB: i thought you said it wasn’t going to be able to make a universe anyway? 
EB: wasn’t it barren or something? 
TT: Yes. 
EB: so why is it important? 
TT: Because if it does not reach this stage, we will not be able to recover the treasure hidden in its core. 
TT: Which is to say, 
TT: You will not be able to recover it. 
TT: When you go to sleep again. 
EB: OHHHHHH. 
EB: why didn’t you say so, of course the answer is treasure. 

John probably thinks “of course the answer is treasure” because that’s very typical of video games. I guess John forgot to put on his video game thinking cap for a while or something.

GG: dave! 
GG: are you busy? 
GG: i dont have much time! 
GG: i am about to make my entry item, and its a little confusing 
GG: i think the more players we add, the trickier they are to… um…… 
GG: activate! 
GG: like yours was 

Here’s the kids working together outside of the relevant client/server pairs: John and Jade ask Rose and Dave respectively for advice on Jade’s entry into the game. I mentioned a pretty long time ago how cooperation between the players is an admirable thing to see in Homestuck. In this case Dave doesn’t answer Jade, but the point still stands.

Also, why exactly does Jade think making the entry item is confusing? As far as I can tell, Jade’s process of making it isn’t any different from the other three kids, but maybe Jade thinks her case is confusing because she isn’t much into video games? I’m not sure.

GG: helloooooo? 
TG: nak nak nak 
GG: 😮 
TG: nak nak nak nak nak nak 
GG: :\ 
GG: whaaat….? 
TG: nakka nakka nak 
GG: dammit dave!!!!!! 
GG: this is really urgent! 
TG: MY GLASSES ARE TALKING TO ME MY GLASSES ARE TALKING TO ME 
TG: naknaknaknaknaknaknaknaknaknaknaknak 
GG: ._.

As I said, Jade really wants Dave’s help even though he isn’t the one in charge of getting her into the game. This really shows how the kids are naturally inclined to work together in all scenarios.

Dream Dave visits Rose’s room and there’s an ominous black aura surrounding her. Needless to say, this isn’t exactly a good sign.

Dream Dave visits Rose’s room and there’s an ominous black aura surrounding her. Needless to say, this isn’t exactly a good sign.

John wakes up from a nap and loses his Cosbytop and sprite pendant, both drowning in oil. If he ever recovered those items later during the battleship journey, I figure the pendant would still be usable but likely not the laptop.

The text here has a weird effect where it’s not only rotated, but with the letters’ vertical positions shifted around a bit. Hussie must’ve had trouble editing the text there so that it fits in the PDA picture just right. Also, fedorafreak is up and about. 

In a fit of stupidity, John throws his PDA in the oil. I remember that later Nannasprite recovers that thing fine which suggests that maybe the other things John left in the oil would still work? I’m not sure. Fits of stupidity are another parallel between John and Karkat.

EB: i don’t remember what happened, i was in the middle of helping jade… 
EB: and then… 
EB: i guess my bed crashed? 
EB: and i got knocked out i guess. 
EB: i was dreaming. 
EB: i couldn’t have been out for that long, because my dream was really short. 
TT: You weren’t. 
TT: Ten minutes, I’d say. 

Rose’s line here tells us that John woke up after Jade entered the game. In this read, it took me a little bit to figure that out.

EB: hey, how do you know these things anyway? 
EB: can you see me somehow? 
TT: Yes. 
TT: I have a crystal ball. 
EB: oh man, really? 
TT: Yes. 
EB: like a magic one? 
TT: I think so. 
EB: can it show you the future? 
EB: is that how you know what’s going to happen? 
TT: No, it can only show me various locations in the present moment, as far as I can tell. 
TT: My perception of the future has been informed by other sources. 
EB: like what? 
TT: Informants. 
EB: durrrrr. 
TT: Whispering gods, memories sifted from dreams, cryptic readings from unearthed talismans, conclusions drawn from riddles deciphered – every gambit you’d expect a quest to extend to an emerging seer. 


[…]


TT: I have more pedestrian sources too, you know. 
TT: Sometimes trolls blither tidbits about the future, and I can’t help but take note of it. 
TT: Just as they do with you. 
TT: You also have access to the oracle clouds in Skaia, whereas I do not. 
EB: oh yeah. 
TT: Knowing the future is no remarkable feat here. 
TT: It appears to be a fact of life. 
TT: I’m not all that special, John. 

Much like Dave, Rose is, as John put it, “jaded by awesome shit”. It recently hit me that this crazy knowledge stuff ties straight in with Rose’s role as a seer.

EB: ok, buuuuuut… 
EB: i guess that’s not all i’m talking about. 
EB: you seem a little different. 
EB: kind of, um… spooky? 
TT: Really? 
EB: i just mean that before, it felt like we were in this adventure together, figuring stuff out as we went along. 
EB: and now you have all the answers! because of magic, and other mysterious reasons! 
EB: and you want to use your powers to break the game, and i still don’t really understand why, and… 
EB: bluh. 
TT: I’m not actually trying to caricaturize a grim sorcerer. 
TT: There’s still a perfectly intact piece of my mind which realizes how ridiculous it is to be flying across rainbow oceans with a couple of magic wands and a salamander in a little cowl. 
TT: And it wasn’t without swallowing a little embarrassment that I revealed I was using a crystal ball just now. 
TT: It’s all pretty absurd. 
TT: And yet, 
TT: It’s been fun, and above all, practical. 
TT: For solving our problems. 

John is talking about how Rose seems kind of spooky and weirdly omniscient, and Rose’s reaction is justifying it by saying that she’s not trying to be the spooky witch (hehe) archetype.

EB: well, if you do not have any objection… 
EB: maybe later, i will drop by your planet again and rescue you, thus breaking the spooky spell put on you by your nefarious, shadowy masters. 
TT: Swoon! 
EB: that way you will stop being so grimdark and ominous, and basically completely off the deep end in every way, as is now painfully obvious to anyone with a brain. 

John’s putting on his video game thinking cap again. It’s sort of like John is Mario and Rose is Princess Peach, and she fell for a trap created by ominous Bowsers or something, except the Bowsers are ugly squid witches who cause Peach to become a spooky goth girl. So Mario has to jump through tubes and question mark boxes in a variant of the blue sewer world or something until he makes it to the next level and saves Peach. But when Mario finally finds Peach, she’s a full-out gray monster and the two go to fight [insert Mario villain here] and … you know the rest.

That was a pretty crappy analogy. The bottom line is, John now thinks Rose is a damsel in distress or something and he has the idea that it’s a video game of that sort.

TT: I will do by best to occupy myself as benignly and unmagically as possible until you show up. 
EB: yes. 
EB: please write some happy stories in your journal, about lively horses, and conspicuously not about wizards, or sadness.

Dirk, who is kind of Rose’s male counterpart, has written a story about lively horses (his edit of Pony Pals to be specific, which eventually turned into a completely rewritten story). Even though the story is also stated to be a pretty emotional tale.

(If you haven’t read the fanmade full version of Pony Pals, read it now.)

TT: … “Happy?” 
TT: What is this strange, unsad emotion of which you speak? 
EB: yes, this is good. 
EB: you see rose, these are jokes. 
EB: this are what they look like, do not be alarmed. 
TT: Jokes? 
TT: Are those the things people say when they want unusual noises to come out of the pliable crescent-shaped holes sometimes found in people’s faces? 
EB: laughs, rose. laaaughs. 
EB: also, those crescenty looking holes where laughs come out of? 
EB: those are smiles! 
EB: observe… 😀 
TT: I need to make a note of this. 
TT: Excuse me while I open this tome bound in the tanned, writhing flesh of a tortured hellscholar. The screaming will subside shortly. 
EB: ok, i will wait patiently. 
TT: Continue to not be alarmed as I record your advice with runes stroked in the black tears bled from the corruption-weary eyes of fifty thousand imaginary occultists. 
TT: And then brace yourself for the fabled blackdeath trance of the woegothics I will slip into, while quaking in the bloodeldritch throes of the broodfester tongues. 

Here, Rose is exaggerating her ominous dreary dark goth girl thing and parodying herself to poke fun at John. But as far as I can tell, many fans like to make Rose seriously be a “what’s a joke?” kind of person. Pretty much every character has some kind of super-inaccurate fanon interpretation, but Rose here almost is acting like fanon Rose.

EB: no, rose! 
EB: that sort of nonsense is exactly what is out of the question! 
EB: i see things are more urgent than i realized. 
EB: i will have to venture there straightaway, and slap you right out of that silly old trance! 
TT: One is not easily shaken from the broodfester tongues, John. 
TT: They are stubborn throes. 
EB: oh. 
EB: well shit. 

John’s whole idea of saving Rose from being all spooky has a strange meta feel to it. To get a picture of what I mean, here’s a little scale I just came up with. 

Meta level 0 would be a story that features a whole bunch of classic character archetypes without questioning them, like all the classic fairy tales and whatnot.


Meta level 1 would be a story or a part of a story that lampshades character archetypes. Very often, Homestuck enters meta level 1, where characters talk about being a hero or a villain or a sidekick, Rose’s whole idea of everyone having an arc to fulfill, or Vriska trying to make herself a super-perfect person. Meta level 1 can be as simple as a character saying, “Oh god, it’s one of those people.”


Meta level 2 is when it’s lampshaded that people are lampshading archetypes. The bit quoted above is an example of that: Rose recognizes that John thinks it’s the damsel-in-distress archetype and that following with that is harder than he thinks. Homestuck has a few other bits that are meta level 2, like Dave’s argument with grimbark Jade about being an archetypical reluctant hero vs. what he really is, or Dave telling Rose that human beings don’t have arcs.


Meta level 3 is when it’s lampshaded that people are lampshading that people are lampshading archetypes, or in less confusing terms, lampshading meta level 2. You can see how the scale continues from there. I can think of a time where Homestuck enters meta level 3: Rose lampshades how people are always lampshading the weirdness of her idea of people having arcs and stuff.


I won’t talk about further meta levels because recursion is confusing. The main point of this digression is, Homestuck is all about lampshading stuff.

EB: what is this treasure, anyway? 
EB: and how’s it gonna save us! 
TT: You’d probably be disappointed if I described it. 
EB: tell me anyway! 
TT: Ok. 
TT: It’s called The Tumor. 
EB: … 
EB: you’re right, that is the shittiest sounding treasure i have ever heard.

EB: so what is this tumor supposed to do? 
EB: and what is the significance of… 
EB: removing it, i guess? 
EB: does that mean im curing the battlefield or something? 
EB: like the planet’s doctor? 
EB: hello????? 
EB: rose????????????? 

This bit is the first introduction of the Tumor, a major driving mystery arc plot point. Here, the name is introduced, but further exploration of it is cut off. I think the deal with the Tumor is fed to us bit by bit rather than having an exposition dump about it, as the comic is prone to do.

TT: I have to go, John. 
TT: Talk to your trolls. 
TT: We’ll catch up shortly. 
EB: wait!!! 
EB: there’s stuff you didn’t tell me! 
EB: what happened with jade? did i mess anything up with the prototyping?? 
EB: aaaugh, why can’t i remember!!!!! 
EB: don’t go yet rose, tell me! 
EB: rose??????? 
— tentacleTherapist [TT] ceased pestering ectoBiologist [EB] — 
EB: BLUH BLUH 
EB: HUGE WITCH

“HUGE WITCH”? I’ve said before that the “Rose is a witch” thing is the closest Homestuck gets to the weird role inversion bullshit. But as I had previously mentioned, this probably isn’t so much role inversion as it is indication that Rose is off the rails. And I have to say, the Rose witch thing is shoving that fact in our faces pretty well. But at the same time, Rose is doing very seer-y things, if that makes sense.

I love how Karkat’s face is in the background, symbolizing him bombarding John with his anger.
Also, John’s doing a stock Vriska pose. Make of that what you will.

CG: IT’S ME AGAIN, ASSHOLE 
CG: THE ONE WHO HATES YOU, REMEMBER? 
CG: OR SHOULD I SAY FUTURE-REMEMBER??? 
EB: karkat!!!!!!!!!! 
CG: AGAIN WITH KNOWING MY NAME 
CG: IT’S REALLY FUCKING UNSETTLING WHEN YOU DO THAT. 
CG: I WONDER HOW FAR BACK YOU KNOW IT 
CG: I’M GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE A SPECIAL POINT OF NOT BEING THE ONE TO TELL YOU, I DON’T WANT TO GIVE YOU THE SATISFACTION. 

It would have been funny if Karkat ended up telling John his name regardless. That’s not what happens, but it would still be funny.

EB: hey, shut up a second! 
EB: i need you to be nice for a change and do me a favor… 
EB: have you talked to jade recently? 
EB: can you tell me what happened to her?? 
CG: WHO THE FUCK IS JADE. 
EB: uh… 
EB: hmm. 
CG: JOHN, THE FACT THAT YOU ALWAYS SEEM TO THINK I CAN READ YOUR MIND JUST UNDERSCORES WHAT A HARROWING GODDAMN IDIOT YOU ARE. 
EB: jade is the girl who i am pretty sure just entered our session. 
EB: she is my client player. 
CG: OH, YOU MEAN THE ONE WHO FUCKS EVERYTHING UP. 
EB: um, yeah… i thought you knew that? you talked to her a bunch of times, apparently. 
CG: WHY THE FUCK WOULD I KNOW THAT. 
CG: THIS IS ONLY THE SECOND TIME I HAVE EVER TALKED TO A HUMAN.
CG: AND THE FIRST TIME, MUCH TO MY MIGRAINE COMPOUNDING REGRET, WAS WITH YOU. 
EB: oh! 
EB: ok, i see what is going on here. 
EB: we are finally getting to our first couple of conversations. cool! 

Heated angry Karkat is back in action! It’s always amusing how John’s always really enthusiastic to get flamed by Karkat.

CG: YOU SEE, IN OUR FIRST CONVERSATION, WE DIDN’T EXACTLY GET OFF ON THE RIGHT FOOT. 
CG: IT IS A FOOT WHICH SHOULD HAVE REEKED OF YOUR VERBAL RUINATION. 
CG: BUT INSTEAD IT SMELLED LIKE 
CG: WELL, LET’S NOT GET INTO THAT. 
CG: I AM HERE TO DO WHAT YOU AND YOUR PATHETIC CADRE OF CO-HUMANS FAILED TO DO, WHICH IS SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT. 
CG: I AM HERE TO UTTERLY ANNIHILATE YOUR SHIT. 
CG: I WILL STAY ON MESSAGE THIS TIME. I WILL NOT BE DETERRED BY YOUR GOOFY MANNERISMS AND YOUR ABSURD PENCHANT FOR REVELING IN SELF ABUSE. 
CG: WE WILL GET OFF ON A FRESH FOOT, AND BY FRESH I MEAN MOST FOUL INDEED. 
CG: ITS TOES ARE WIGGLING UNDER YOUR HIDEOUS PINK NOSTRILS. NOW BREATHE DEEP YOUR MISFORTUNE, YOU SAD LITTLE CLOWN. 
CG: THIS IS THE END OF YOU. THAT AROMA YOU DETECT WAFTS FROM THE BOUQUET PERCHED ON YOUR CORPSE BOX. 
CG: NOBODY CRIES, EXCEPT YOUR SHITTY GHOST. HEAVY SOBS FROM A SPECTER OF UNQUALIFIED FAILURE. 
CG: IT IS A SYMPHONY TO MY ANGRY EARS. 
EB: so… the smell is from a foot… but also from funeral flowers? 
EB: this metaphor is confusing. 

Some characters in Homestuck have a whole thing of getting carried away with turning idioms into elaborate metaphors.

EB: this is all that big time trolling i was looking forward to. 
EB: and it’s pretty good so far, and ordinarily i would be excited to hear more… 
CG: YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN??? 
CG: YOU ARE ACTUALLY ENJOYING THIS, WHAT A SICK FUCK. 
EB: but i really am concerned about what happened with jade! 

The funny thing about John’s interactions with Karkat is that Karkat flames him when John doesn’t want him to, and he doesn’t flame him when John wants him to.

EB: whoa… 
CG: WHAT 
EB: the ground is shaking… 
EB: what’s going on? 
CG: I’LL TELL YOU WHAT’S GOING ON. 
CG: WHAT YOU FUCKING DID IS WHAT’S GOING ON. 

Literally two pages before the wham flash, we get one more little hint as to what’s going to happen. Just from this bit I quoted, you might be able to deduce that Bec got prototyped while John was asleep and caused Jack Noir to become nightmarishly powerful. After all, Jack is currently on LOWAS so he can be inferred to be the one who caused the ground to shake. I’m pretty sure Hussie deliberately made Bec’s prototyping guessable.

EB: so tell me what i fucking did!!!
CG: OH, YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU FUCKING DID?
EB: yes!
EB: please, no more stalling or “i already told you’s” or any other maddening nonsense!
EB: just…
EB: TELL ME!
CG: VERY WELL, JOHN HUMAN EGBERT.
CG: I WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU DID
CG: READY FOR ME TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU DID?
CG: HERE’S ME, TELLING YOU WHAT YOU DID
CG: OK, HERE GOES
CG: WHAT YOU DID IS AS FOLLOWS
CG: AS SUCH
CG: AND THUSLY 

This is pretty much code for, “massive info dump that will answer all your questions is coming soon.” In my previous post I talked about how flashes in Homestuck are often followed with info dumps, and as we’ll see, the following flash is a great example of this pattern, with a subsequent stretch of pages exploring the ramifications of what happened in that flash.

OK, time to comment on [S] Jade: Enter. As I mentioned in an intermission post, I think I missed that flash in my first read because of inadvertently skipping pages, but it’s one of my favorite flashes.

The flash opens with a series of shots of what’s going on with all the characters involved here set to piano music. The one depicted above is pretty funny because it has a dramatically shaded view of John looking solemn which would normally look pretty badass, but the Cosbytop makes it seem more like a clown filing papers.

Jade alchemizes her entry item (a Bec piñata) and a blindfold appears on her head as she does that. I can’t help but wonder, how did the blindfold get there? Did it come with her alchemization, or the Bec piñata have embedded first guardian powers to zap the blindfold on her face?

The blindfold is meant to tie in with the symbolism of the entry items, and I’ll stop here to note that I never discussed that symbolism at all. Many readers will catch on to the symbolisms associated with each of the entry items and discuss them in commentaries. Hussie goes in depth on the entry item symbolism on his Formspring here. I totally could’ve talked about this whole symbolism stuff, but I never bothered doing that. I guess it’s something I find irrelevant to discuss in something that’s meant to be my own commentary. I could go on a tangent about the nature of this post series, but that would be as pretentious as it is better fit for my recurring posts where I say stuff about this post series. Speaking of which, a day before the Omegapause ends, I will make another post where I say stuff about this series, including how it might change when Homestuck resumes.

OK I got way off track here. Back to where we were.

John comes very close to prototyping one of Grandpa’s dolls, and if you look closely, you’ll notice that it lost an eye and arm the moment John picked it up with the Sburb cursor. I always thought that John decided to prototype that doll because of the missing eye and arm, but now I guess that’s either not the case or an art inconsistency.

At the crucial moment, Vriska interferes and puts John to sleep before he can prototype the doll. I’ll stop and take a moment to wonder, what would happen if Vriska hadn’t put John to sleep? I think Hussie stated on his Formspring that whether or not Vriska put John to sleep, Bec would’ve jumped into the kernelsprite or at least tried to do that. John and Jade agreed that they shouldn’t prototype Grandpa before she enters the game, leaving Bec to combine with a blue doll. I guess that would turn Jack into a blind armless superdog? I’m not sure how dangerous he’d be then. One thing that definitely couldn’t have happened if the doll was prototyped is Jade ascending to god tier, because Jadesprite existing was necessary for that to happen.

Bec warps all the junk (and Grandpa’s body!) into outer space and jumps into the kernelsprite, and for the next ten seconds, we watch Bec transform into a sprite. This scene is prolonged, which is notable because it gives us a bit of time to let it sink in that Bec just prototyped himself into Jade’s sprite. Often in Homestuck’s flashes, lots of events will happen in rapid succession, causing people to miss out on some stuff. Bec’s prototyping clearly averts this pattern because it’s a very important moment in the plot.

Hussie says it’s kind of a mystery why Bec prototyped himself. I think it was to amplify his first guardian powers and make sure Jade is protected. The full extent of Bec’s powers is kind of ambiguous. Becsprite and Bec Noir both have demonstrated incredible powers, though it’s unclear how much of it is raw first guardian power.

A second reason why Bec might have prototyped himself is because maybe he knew that if he prototyped himself, the enemies in the game wouldn’t be able to hurt Jade.

Compare Becsprite destroying the meteor:

to Bec Noir destroying the trolls’ Prospit later in the flash:

Becsprite seems to be using all his power to destroy the meteor, but Bec Noir not only seems to have an easier time destroying Prospit, he also does it quite differently. This suggests that the two’s powers do indeed work pretty differently. In Homestuck it’s always been pretty indeterminate exactly which powers characters or objects get. I’ve mentioned several times that powers in Homestuck typically operate on the principle of new powers as the plot demands.

The fighting scenes show a bunch of sprite mode views of Davesprite with his bird wings spread out, and I have to say, it looks pretty badass. I wonder whether or not it was guest art. I would say no if not for the fact that some of the sprite mode characters in [S] Make her pay were guest art.

Here’s something that I’ll put in my Jade pattern-breaking count: (15) it’s not just her house that enters the Medium, also the volcano next to it. This was implied as early as [S] WV: Ascend where there’s a hole in the ground where the volcano once stood, but it’s best to count that event when it happened onscreen.

I love how Jack Noir’s transformation into Bec Noir is played out. His head turns into a dog head, and the green sun effects on his wings really emphasize that he’s going to be super-dangerous.

Davesprite has such a “we’re screwed” look. Or a “what the fuck just happened” look. Could be both.

Up next is a flashback to the trolls at the victory platform, accompanied with a change to 8-bit music. The music in this flash is so perfectly dramatic but it also has its own unique flavor with lots of Asian instruments and stuff.

This flash answers lots of questions, including perhaps the most enticing: who is the demon the trolls talk about? Noir is the demon. It’s him. I think the army of a thousand Aradiabots that fought Jack serves to show how strong he is (this kind of thing is done a lot in Homestuck), which was mentioned in Alterniabound but I didn’t bother discussing that.

It was really hard to take screenshots of these scenes at the right time.

Karkat wakes up on Prospit, sees Bec Noir, and recognizes him as the Jack who he felt a pretty strong bond with. His face in the picture shown above captures his reaction to what he perceives as an ally betraying him so well. I’m not sure if his emotion could be captured in Hussie’s usual art style (both pictures shown above are clearly guest art).

The flash concludes to Jade falling through snow with a goofy grin set to a slow piano and strings version of the cheerful song that played at the end of Bec’s debut flash back in Act 3. That scene has a weird saddening effect, because of the music that concludes shit hitting the fan extra hard.

This was such a whopper of a flash I don’t know what to say. I’ve decided that I won’t do much recapping stuff anymore when I already have extensive commentary so I won’t bother with a recap of [S] Jade: Enter. Nor should you expect a huge wall of words recapping the act when I finish Act 5 Act 2. I might have a shorter recap, I’m not sure.

Following the flash is a stretch of pages accompanied by Karkat’s exposition that shows us the ramifications of what went down during that flash.

Jack’s first kill as Bec Noir is Dave’s bro, one of the most badass characters in Homestuck. Let it sink in, this is demonstration of how strong Jack is now. It’s also the very first thing shown to readers after watching [S] Jade: Enter. This would also be a very fitting end for Davesprite if it didn’t turn out that he survived wounded.

CG: YOU MADE AN UNBEATABLE BOSS IS WHAT YOU DID.

This is such a great line to accompany the death of a hardcore fighter, and the presumed death of his bird sideman. The death scene fits so well wit the word “unbeatable”.

CG: THE IDIOT YOU CALL THE JADE HUMAN WENT AHEAD AND PROTOTYPED HER FREAK OF A LUSUS, WHILE YOU DECIDED TO TAKE A NAP FOR SOME REASON RATHER THAN DOING WHAT A LEADER IS SUPPOSED TO DO AND STOP HER FROM BEING SO FUCKING RETARDED.

We now know exactly what the awful mistake the kids made is, but we also know that we can’t actually blame it on the kids. In Karkat’s eyes, John and Jade both made a horrible mess of things, but in reality, if any person should take the blame, it’s Vriska.

CG: YOUR VERSION OF JACK, WHO YOU WERE SOMEHOW DUMB ENOUGH TO ENTRUST WITH THE QUEEN’S RING, BECAME ESSENTIALLY INDESTRUCTIBLE. 

Once again, it’s not the kids’ fault that Jack took the queen’s ring, at least not directly. This is half exposition dump, half misconception dump.

The fire Jack made is so strong that it made John’s whole planet look green.

EB: jade prototyped a lusus? 
EB: what’s that?
CG: OH
CG: OK, MY BAD, I FORGOT I WAS TALKING TO A MEMBER OF A GENERICALLY BIZARRE ALIEN SPECIES.

I like how Karkat calls humans “generically bizarre”. To Karkat, humans are like a stereotypical sci-fi alien race. But Homestuck’s trolls are quite different from what comes to people’s minds when they hear “alien”. I just looked up “alien” on Google Images, and most of the results are either weird nightmare creatures or have very minimalist designs, with saggy monochrome slimy skin, no hair, and big hollow eyes. I wonder what results show up when you look up “alien” on Troll Google? Some of the trolls seem to have subconscious knowledge of human stuff, so maybe humans are the troll race’s idea of aliens.

CG: I GUESS SOME HUMANS HAVE A LUSUS, WHILE OTHERS DON’T? WHATEVER.
CG: HER LUSUS IS THE CREATURE WHICH SERVES AS HER CUSTODIAN.
EB: oh, you mean her dog!
CG: I GUESS
EB: so, she prototyped becquerel?
EB: why is that so bad? 

CG: JOHN, DO YOU EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR FRIENDS?
CG: IS THIS HOW HUMAN FRIENDSHIP WORKS? YOU JUST DON’T KNOW SHIT ABOUT EACH OTHER? 

Apparently John doesn’t know that Bec is a powerful dog. Compare this to Dave, who called Bec a “devilbeast” before we even knew Jade’s name. Did Jade withhold information about the weirdness of her life from John just as she pointlessly withheld her knowledge of the future from him? I still don’t get why it would have been bad to tell him. John would have thought it’s incredibly awesome that Jade is apparently psychic.

CG: HER LUSUS EXHIBITS THE PROPERTIES OF A LEGENDARY ENTITY CALLED A FIRST GUARDIAN.
CG: IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITY.

Confirmation that Bec is Earth’s first guardian. This doesn’t typically come as a surprise to readers, since when Doc Scratch is first introduced, you’ll likely be reminded of Bec.

CG: AS THE DEFENDERS OF THEIR PLANETS, [FIRST GUARDIANS ARE] VIRTUALLY OMNIPOTENT.
CG: PROTOTYPING ONE IS ABSOLUTELY UNCONSCIONABLE.

CG: THE RESULT IS A BOSS A HELL OF A LOT WORSE THAN WHAT WE HAD TO FIGHT, AND WE PROTOTYPED TWELVE TIMES RATHER THAN A MEASLY FOUR.
CG: AND ONE OF OUR PROTOTYPINGS INCLUDED AN OUTER FUCKING GOD THE SIZE OF A CITY!
CG: I HOPE THIS PUTS IN PERSPECTIVE HOW TERRIBLE YOU ARE. 

This little power comparison above got me thinking. When we saw the hypothetical fight between Vriska and Bec Noir, they were evenly matched and it was as likely as not that Vriska won. But Aradia said that the trolls only narrowly succeeded in defeating the black king—who is supposedly weaker than Bec Noir—with Vriska rolling the maximum dice combo just like she did in her envisioned fight with Jack plus the other trolls all at her side plus an army of a thousand Aradiabots plus Gamzee’s super rage attack.

CG: [JACK] WAS WEARING A RING I DIDN’T RECOGNIZE, CERTAINLY NOT ONE BELONGING TO OUR QUEENS. 
CG: WE DESTROYED THOSE. 

Apparently the trolls destroyed both of their queens’ rings. This begs the question, how and why did they destroy the white queen’s ring? My guess is that they had to dunk both of the rings in the volcano in order to fully activate it, and that the white queen freely gave up her ring. This would present a challenge for the kids; Kanaya wasn’t kidding when she said that activating the forge wouldn’t be easy. Maybe they’d need to snatch the rings from Bec Noir and PM, find the Ring of Void (maybe take it from Caliborn?), use retcons to make another copy of the Ring of Life, and throw all those into the volcano. I’m looking forward to seeing how the magic ring stuff will play out.

Pictured above: one of the images accompanying Karkat’s info dump. It’s an interesting choice for Hussie to have this part of the exile side story merely accompany a conversation, rather than actually narrated from the exiles’ perspective where they’re given commands. Is this done to spread Karkat’s exposition through multiple panels and emphasize how much information he’s giving John? Or to emphasize that this is a ramification of what happened in [S] Jade: Enter?

Recently I participated in an online discussion about adapting Homestuck as a TV show or movie, a task that’s considerably harder for Homestuck than it is for most other works. Some people suggested that the best way to adapt the pesterlogs without them getting boring for viewers might be to read the pesterlogs as related scenes are shown on the screen. Homestuck itself does that pretty often, and this sequence, showing visuals of the exile arc shown alongside Karkat explaining stuff, is one of the best examples of this.

CG: ANYWAY, THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED, AND THAT’S WHY YOU ARE SUCH A DISGRACE. 
CG: THIS IS PROBABLY THE LAST TIME I WILL EVER EXPLAIN ALL THIS STUFF TO YOU, BECAUSE I CAN’T IMAGINE IT WILL HELP MY HEADACHE MUCH TO REPEAT MYSELF.
CG: I BET IT’LL BE PRETTY FRUSTRATING FOR YOU IN THE PAST! 

From John’s perspective, Karkat finally explained everything to him out of request. From Karkat’s perspective, it’s his first time explaining stuff. John learns things in the reverse order that Karkat bothers explaining them. The backwards trolling is just so beautifully mind-wrenching.

EB: yeah, i should get going too.
EB: my friend is pestering me, and i doubt she likes to be kept waiting.
EB: (she is sort of the bossy type!)
CG: WHY WOULD I CARE ABOUT YOUR DUMB HUMAN FRIEND AND HER PETULANT, MEANINGLESS DEMANDS.
CG: WHAT COULD THAT POSSIBLY HAVE TO DO WITH ME.
EB: ummm…
EB: yeah, you’re right, it is probably of no significance to you whatsoever.
EB: (hehehehe) 

John refers to Vriska as “his friend” rather than Vriska. That’s a pretty great prank on Karkat. Or should I say, trolling Karkat? If you think of it, the kids troll the trolls (as in mess with them) more so than vice versa. John, Rose, and Dave all do that pretty often.

CG: A;SLDKJFSDLKFJS;LDJFLK;J
CG: HERE, JOHN HUMAN DIPSHIT.
CG: HAVE A SECOND AND PENULTIMATE FUCK YOU:
CG: “FUCK”
CG: “YOU”
CG: MAY IT MARK THE SECOND OF MANY TO COME, AND THE MAGNIFICENT DENOUEMENT TO MANY RECEIVED.
CG: TOGETHER WE JUST TUGGED AT THE BOW TO UNRAVEL A PRESENT FULL OF GO FUCK YOURSELF.
CG: HAPPY WRIGGLING DAY YOU UGLY PILE OF TRASH.


— carcinoGeneticist [CG] ceased trolling ectoBiologist [EB] —

Karkat’s last line here is such an awesome stopping point (how did he know it’s John’s birthday?) and it’s almost exactly 50 pages so I’ll stop here. See you next time as OH MY GOD VRISKA WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT. Next post will be Thursday because it’s pretty short.

>> Part 35: Backwards Logic and Nightmare Faces

Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 33: Cthulhu Acid Trip Dreams

Introduction

Part 32 | Part 33 | Part 34 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 6 of 32

Pages 2841-2890 (MSPA: 4741-4790)

Yes, this really is a scene in Homestuck. I promise you, not all of it is an LSD tri—oh wait you should know this, because this post series is made on the assumption that people reading it have read Homestuck.

In which I decide against the “in which blah blah blah” thing because that would be stealing an idea from the blog that inspired this post series, and stealing ideas is a bad habit I’ve had in my creative projects for as long as I can remember; and also because I went fine adding title pictures to my older posts without any text immediately following.

Continuing from where we left off, we see what Jack Noir is up to. He yanks the ninja sword out of the beat mesa record thing, and I wonder where exactly Dave’s bro went. I actually don’t remember. I think he escaped and somehow went to LOWAS offscreen but I’m not sure. I guess I’ll see and find out.

Then comes a famously bizarre and nightmarish flash in which Jade wakes up from her dream. I’ll comment on it with the screenshot method I’ve seen livebloggers use.

I like how deceiving the Prospit loading screen is knowing what really happens in this flash.

This looks like a pseudo-old timey video game.

This flash starts with an eye-melting dream sequence about Squiddles. I think this is meant to give the impression that Jade now has regular absurd dreams? Pretty much everyone has weird dreams, but Jade should probably be a little more weirded out at that. I’m pretty sure she had gotten really used to dreaming on Prospit since she was little, so normal person dreams really should tell her that something’s wrong.

But then again, she’s dreaming, and when you’re dreaming, your mindset shifts to a whole different world. In my dreams, I’ll often have memories of things that didn’t actually happen. So maybe Jade is in her dream mindset or something, just like how she was pretty absentminded while dreaming on Prospit. This actually makes sense in Homestuck’s context; in dream bubble sequences, characters will typically take a while before they can remember stuff.

I know this might just be a tangent about stuff you already know and have experienced, but dreams are a pretty fun topic to talk about because of how weird everything about them is.

Rewatching this flash, I can tell that the zoom-out scene depicted above is meant to tell readers, “Now that Jade’s dream self is dead, she dreams in bubbles in a realm that lies way outside Derse.” But as I’ve seen, readers are more typically just plain confused by this flash, made worse by the fact that when they finish the flash and collect their thoughts, their minds will likely be clouded up by the shock of the scary squidmonster sequence in the second half of the flash. This is a noteworthy flaw in Homestuck. Flash animations meant to convey information will often just seem really cryptic to readers, or seem really inexplicable and confusing. When I first watched [S] WV: Ascend, I thought it was meant to show readers that WV and company are the ones behind Sburb.* There’s a few flash scenes that throw readers off especially often, like Aradia ascending to god tier or the Green Sun being created rather than destroyed. I think such scenes throw readers off because they will often show something happening, but they don’t put into words the reason why or how it happened.

* I should’ve mentioned that in the last Act 2 post, but I guess I forgot to. I totally could add that to that post, but it would kind of ruin the point of mentioning that here so I won’t. Maybe that could be taken as bonus information you could get from reading this blog beyond just my first ten posts or something. I don’t know.

A workaround for that problem might be accompanying the flashes with expository text. Nannasprite’s exposition sequence back in Act 2 seems to me like Hussie experimenting such a medium of conveying information. But in later acts, flash sequences will instead often be followed by exposition dumps explaining what happened in those flashes. The flash I’m currently commenting on is one of the best examples of this: immediately following the flash, Feferi will explain stuff to Jade about the Furthest Ring and what happened in Jade’s dream sequence. Other examples of this sort of thing are Jade giving John a rundown of the events that happened in Cascade about 200 pages after that flash, or Aranea explaining stuff about Lord English in the walkaround game that immediately follows [S] Caliborn: Enter.

Up next, Feferi appears in Jade’s dream, and here readers will typically think “what the FUCK”. I think this scene is meant to show us that people from different sessions can share a dream, but people watching this flash will seem to have trouble getting that, rather thinking Feferi’s a projection of Jade’s mind, which should be impossible because she’s never seen a troll in person.

I should note that I laughed pretty hard at the absurdity of this sequence. That’s when the audio and imagery start to distort, leading to a nightmarish minute-long squidmonster sequence which gradually progresses from this:

to this:

before accompanying the following imagery with giant monster whispers:

This nightmare sequence tends to flush any understanding of what’s going on out of readers, which I think might serve to help make readers feel the way Jade does about this whole thing.

So she wakes up in a really awful mood and talks to Feferi.

Look at that droopy face mixed in with all the goofy stuff Jade used back in Act 3.

CC: Glub glub. 38)
GG: what!!!!!
CC: S-E-E??
GG: see what!
GG: go away 

John, Rose, and Dave have all completely warmed up to the trolls, but here’s Jade still unable to tolerate any of them, made worse by her mood. Jade’s actions in this whole following sequence pretty heavily show us her grumpy side, going way against her giggly girl nature. You can tell by how she says “go away” without punctuation how she’s feeling.

CC: I told you!
CC: T)(ere is not)(ing to worry about at all.
GG: bluhhh what are you talking about….
GG: my head hurts
GG: just stop it, stop trolling me
GG: i hate you all!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

CC: )(oly mackerel, looks like SOM-EON-E woke up on t)(e wrong side of t)(e absurd )(uman bed! 

This contrasts pretty heavily with Jade’s little exchange with Karkat back in Act 3. She seemed a lot more energetic to tell a troll to scram back then than now. Speaking of which, I don’t recall how exactly Jade came to warm up to the trolls. I guess I’ll find out about that.

GG: my dream was horrible!!!
GG: i dont know what that was, i have never dreamed anything like it
CC: Yes, I imagine not! You )(ave spent your w)(ole life dreaming about prospit, no?
GG: oh god….
GG: prospit 😦
GG: is it really gone?
CC: Yes, Jade. It is time to face t)(e facts!
CC: Our moons are gone too. If we wis)( to sleep now, our dreams must take place in t)(e bubbles glubbed by t)(e gods w)(o live in t)(e Furt)(est Ring.
CC: It is t)(e infinite space w)(ic)( divides all sessions, completely unnavigable and unfat)(omable, untouc)(ed by t)(e time or space of any universe in existence.
CC: Its lords are our slumberbuddies now. 38) 

GG: uuuuuuuuugh D: 
CC: Don’t be ridiculous. T)(ey are not as dreadful as t)(ey look.
CC: In fact, t)(ey are quite )(elpful if you know )(ow to talk to t)(em!
CC: Don’t you remember our dream? I was trying to s)(ow you t)(at t)(ere is not)(ing to fear.
CC: But t)(en… you kind of freaked out! )(umans are so M-ELODRAMATIC. 

Here’s the exposition stuff I mentioned a little while ago. Feferi’s practically recapping the flash I just went over.

GG: could you please
GG: not use all those stupid parentheses??????
GG: i can hardly read what you type and its giving me a migraine
CC: GLUUUUB oh fine.
CC: I will suspend my neato quirk just for you.
CC: I hereby renounce the royal mark of sea dweller supremacy in the interest of INT-ERSP-ECI-ES DIPLOMACY.
GG: what about the -E thing, can you stop that too? it is also annoying and stupid
CC: JEGUS JADE.
CC: Look! It is like a cool trident I throw sometimes.
CC: 
Ψoooooo —————E 

CC: How is that not awesome!
GG: meh :\
CC: Okay, you win. I have officially humbled myself before you. Entirely glubbing peasant-IFICATED for your pleasure.
CC: Shall I clip my fins for you as well, your majesty? 

Here’s Feferi’s condescending side again, how she feels like she has humbled herself and stuff in place of the obnoxious royal typing style.

GG: hehehe
GG: ok, sorry for sounding bossy
GG: you seem pretty nice, and you sure do look exotic
GG: i kind of always thought you were all like
GG: a bunch of really obnoxious humans
CC: Well, thank you! On both counts, of being likened to something other than an obnoxious human, as well as on my exotic looks.
CC: For the record, you look pretty awesomely weird too. 

Jade has now realized that among the trolls, at least this one isn’t that bad. Also, here’s another bit of contrast between Jade then and now: she used to be really on top of things with her future knowledge she inexplicably refuses to share, but now she’s really out of the loop on the trolls at this point. I’m thinking back to Jade’s conversation with John where she talked about the stuff she somehow knew would happen but denied that she’s psychic. Jade gets a lot of development away from being the cryptic pseudo-psychic girl in this act.

GG: i remember prospit being attacked
GG: and
GG: falling…..
GG: aaaand
GG: i dunno 😦
GG: do you know what happened?
CC: Hell if I know!
CC: In your pre-death dream at least. Oh, well you died obviously, so there’s that.
GG: fffffff
GG: yeah, i gathered that! XC
CC: All I could see was what happened in your hive.
CC: You were asleep, and then your robot exploded.
CC: And then your lusus saved you! Kind of like mine saved me.
CC: Before she died. 38C 

How exactly did Gl’bgolyb save Feferi? Did it have to do with entering the game or what? I know that later she mentions that her lusus fell into her kernelsprite—is that it? I’m really not sure.

GG: also it was shortly before your friend sent me a weird message
GG: about how my robot was going to explode, and i should talk to him when it happens
GG: this was months ago
CC: Oh? Who was that?
GG: it was the most awful and angry one
GG: i am so sick of him, i really dont want to talk to that pathetic jerk ever
CC: Ah, Karkat. Of course.
GG: thats his name?
CC: Yes, he’s our leader. Why did he want you to talk to him?
GG: hmmmm
GG: thats right, it was about some kind of plan…
GG: which he said me from the future told him about?
GG: i thought it was total nonsense at the time
GG: but
GG: i guess he was telling the truth
GG: so maybe i should talk to him? i dont know 

CC: Glubshrug.
CC: He’s pretty harmless, really. You get used to his yelling.
CC: I do not even process it as yelling anymore. More like a lot of blubbering.
CC: More blubber spills out of that mouth than a gash in a poached whale. 

I guess Feferi is the one who convinces Jade that the trolls aren’t so bad. I don’t remember much how Jade deals with Karkat and warms up to him, I guess I’ll see.

CC: And hey, if you want to take another nap sometime, let me know! They will be more than happy to glub us up another bubble.
GG: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
GG: i am never going to sleep again!
GG: never never never never never never 

What if Jade does end up refusing to sleep? That might potentially parallel her with Karkat, her patron troll. But as I said in an Act 3 post, John says much later that Jade still retains her sleeping habit. It’s a bit ironic that a character who always wants to make positive contributions to whatever’s going on has such an affinity for sleeping, which I’ve speculated to be Vriska’s mind control experiments rubbing off on her mind when it’s free of influence.

Oh my god, those eyebrows. That’s such a Karkat face.
Also, notice the huge meteor in the sky on the top left.

GG: ok, my robot exploded
GG: now what smart guy!
CG: HOLY SHIT, IT’S HARLEY
CG: COMMUNICATING WITH ME OUT OF NOWHERE OF HER OWN VOLITION
CG: HOLD THAT THOUGHT WHILE I GO INFORM MY DISGRACE OF A CLOWN FRIEND ABOUT THIS TRUE REAL LIFE MIRACLE, IT MIGHT LIFT HIS SPIRITS
CG: I HAVE TO SPREAD THE WICKED WORD LIKE I’M MASSAGING SHITTY SPARKLEDUST AROUND MY NETHER REGIONS TO ASSUAGE A VICIOUS RASH
CG: IT’S LIKE I’M SEASONING A FUCKING STEAK HERE. 

I don’t think we know whether Karkat had this conversation before or after Gamzee watched that ICP video. I wonder if Karkat did indeed try that on Gamzee, or what. We don’t get any dialogue from Gamzee between his conversation with Dave I covered last post and when he becomes full-on evil. I think it’s likely that after his crisis of faith, Gamzee went out of the computer lab and questioned his life choices in private as he slowly became evil.

GG: i knew i would regret this
GG: talking to you is so terrible
GG: its making my headache worse
CG: OH YEAH, BECAUSE TALKING TO YOU HAS JUST BEEN ABSOLUTE EUPHORIA.
CG: DON’T EVEN TALK TO ME ABOUT HEADACHES.
CG: RIGHT NOW THERE’S A LUMBERJACK SPLITTING WOOD ON MY THINK PAN.
CG: HE’S GOT THE FOREARMS OF A CHOLERBEAR, A MOUNTAIN OF LOGS, AND NOTHING BUT FUCKING TIME. 

This is another parallel between Jade and Karkat: both, at this point, are really tired and woke up from a horrifying dream, and are thus grouchy and even grouchier than usual respectively. All four beta kids seem to have some parallels with their patron trolls, though I can’t put my finger on any good ones between John and Vriska at the moment.

GG: i cant believe i fell for this
GG: it was just a setup to troll me some more
GG: why do you go to such lengths to troll me? i just dont understand it
CG: TRY TO BE CULTURALLY SENSITIVE
CG: TROLLING IS AN ACTIVITY THAT SHARES A NAME WITH MY ENTIRE SPECIES
CG: DO I GET ON YOUR CASE FOR ALL THE TERRIBLE HUMANNING YOU DO?
GG: thats ridiculous, humanning isnt a word
GG: and if it was, it would be a nicer thing to do than trolling!
GG: you know what i mean, stop pretending you dont 

Here Jade’s lampshading the absurdity of what trolls do—exactly what I mentioned a few posts ago. As I said, I don’t really get the thing of trolls using their species name as a word with a lot of meanings. I guess it’s just a silly thing that expands on the term “trolling” as it’s used on the Internet.

GG: i mean you are being patronizing and disingenuous to get a rise out of me
GG: and that is really really shitty!!!!!!
GG: i am so tired of it, and i am done talking to you forever
GG: bye karkat, it was awful knowing you! 

I’m pretty sure this is the second time in Homestuck where Jade swears. Just as John starts doing the Vriska thing not long after he first talks to her, Jade ends up swearing in her first decently long conversation with Karkat.

Or does this give a hint at Jade’s hidden depths, with her own ruder tendencies? Act 5 Act 2 has Jade’s psyche explored in quite some depth, showing us some personal issues of her own. This brings to mind how Dave’s personal issues are also explored in depth. But in Act 6 this becomes pretty different: Dave’s issues are later played VERY far—excessively so I would argue—to the point of retroactively making him have even more personal issues and repressive stuff than he already did; Jade’s, however, are practically forgotten about. A common complaint is that among the beta kids, the Derse dreamers get so much more character development than the Prospit dreamers, and I must agree here. Some people argue that John has gotten zero real change and development since page 1 of Homestuck (I disagree but I won’t go on about why), and as I said when I started Act 3, it’s generally agreed that Jade has gotten way too little screen time in Act 6. This is even implicitly referenced in the most recent update featuring Jade as of the Omegapause, when the god tier version of Calliope alludes to Jade’s role in the story as she talks about the space aspect.


This tangent literally arose from Jade saying the word “shitty”. It almost feels like I’m getting comically off-track in my posts, but then again, this post series was always meant to analyze Homestuck in depth.

CG: YOU PROBABLY DIDN’T CONTACT THE RIGHT ME.
GG: what does that mean!
CG: I MEAN FUTURE ME IS PROBABLY THE ONE TO TALK TO ABOUT THIS.
CG: SINCE IT’S ALL NEWS TO ME.
GG: is this another prank
GG: you are seriously the worst at pranks
CG: I DON’T PLAY PRANKS, THAT’S JUVENILE NONSENSE. 

This is another example of Karkat being an inverse of John, who as we know, has an affinity for pranks..

CG: IN THIS CASE, I AM ACCOMPLISHING THE LATTER.
CG: HERE, CLICK THIS AND WE WILL SOLVE THE MYSTERY TOGETHER.
CG: 
GG: 😐

I never realized until now that the following memo where Jade watches Karkat argue with himself was made by Karkat to figure out this exploded dreambot stuff. I guess it diverts from the point so quickly that you forget what it even was for. Doesn’t Karkat know at this point that talking to his alternate self will inevitably lead to a heated fight?

This would be my second choice for this post’s title picture.

CCG RIGHT NOW opened memo on board FRUITY RUMPUS ASSHOLE FACTORY.

CCG: HEY FUTURE ME, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS EXPLODED JADEBOT BUSINESS?
CCG: MUST BE SOMETHING REALLY MISSION CRITICAL, OR JADE WOULDN’T HAVE BOTHERED GETTING IN TOUCH WITH US, RIGHT?
CCG: SOMETHING IMPERATIVE TO OUR SURVIVAL NO DOUBT?
CCG: HEY DOUCHE BAG, ARE YOU THERE
??? gardenGnostic [?GG] AT ?:?? responded to memo.
?GG: oh jeez, why am i doing this
?GG: this is so stupid!
CCG: PIPE DOWN HARLEY, THIS PRACTICALLY DOESN’T EVEN CONCERN YOU AT THIS POINT
?GG: bluhhh youre so funny!!!!! 

If Karkat said that Jade doesn’t have anything to do with this memo, then why did he invite her to it? So she can help explain the robot explosion?

Also, it’s hard to tell if Jade’s being sarcastic when she says Karkat is so funny. She has been in a pretty grouchy mood but it’s been noted several times that Jade generally isn’t very sarcastic.

CCG: YOU KNOW, IT’S REALLY AMAZING HOW BEHIND THE TIMES YOU ARE.
CCG: IT’S ALMOST AS IF YOU’VE SLEPT THROUGH THIS WHOLE ADVENTURE
CCG: OH WAIT, THAT IS ESSENTIALLY TRUE.
CCG: IT WAS HILARIOUS WATCHING YOU GROW UP.
CCG: YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD ALL THE ANSWERS, FROLICKING ALL OVER YOUR ISLAND BEING INFURIATINGLY CHIPPER, BUILDING ROBO-BUNNIES LIKE A MORON AND ULTIMATELY RUINING EVERYTHING.
CCG: YOU WERE SO SURE YOUR DREAMS TOLD YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEEDED TO KNOW.
CCG: AND NOW LOOK AT YOU
CCG: YOU SUDDENLY UNDERSTAND JACK SHIT. 

Karkat specifically notes that Jade being out of the loop thing I mentioned earlier. It’s kind of a recurring thing with this post series, where I make an observation about something, and then a few pages later, I end up seeing Homestuck make note of that observation.

CCG: DO YOU EVEN HAVE ANY IDEA HOW LUCKY YOU ARE TO BE GRACED BY MY DIVINE FURY?
CCG: TO HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF GETTING TO BE STUDIED AND MOCKED BY ME FOR YOUR WHOLE PATHETIC MISERABLE LIFE?
CCG: DO YOU REALIZE I’M YOUR GOD? YES, YOUR LITERAL GOD, THAT’S RIGHT.
?GG: sure karkat, whatever you say! 

This is the exact same condescending attitude Karkat displayed in his first conversation with John. He gradually warms up to John before he even starts talking to Jade, and at that point I guess he goes back to the same starting place and presents himself as a victorious almighty god, only for that to backfire yet again.

CCG: AND I HAVE TAKEN TIME OUT OF MY BUSY GODLY SCHEDULE TO SCRUTINIZE YOUR POINTLESS EXISTENCE.
CCG: OUT OF THE COUNTLESS TRILLIONS OF LIFE FORMS I BROUGHT INTO REALITY THROUGH ANGRY GRUBFUCK POWER ALONE, I HAVE SELECTED YOU FOR EXAMINATION AND HARASSMENT.
CCG: PERSONALLY I THINK THAT WARRANTS A LITTLE GRATITUDE, AND JUST MAYBE, A BIT OF DEFERENCE.
CCG: A CURTSY, PERHAPS?
CCG: BUT YEAH GO AHEAD AND KEEP BLOWING ME OFF LIKE THE FLAKEY LITTLE TWERP YOU ARE.
FUTURE carcinoGeneticist [FCG] 3 HOURS FROM NOW responded to memo.
FCG: HEY DON’T TALK TO HER LIKE THAT YOU UNCOUTH PIECE OF SHIT.
FCG: THIS IS REFLECTING POORLY ON BOTH OF US, IT’S GODDAMNED EMBARRASSING. 

Here future Karkat responds to the memo not to answer the robot question, but to call his past self out on being mean to Jade. At first I thought, oh Karkat’s just doing this to call his past self out, but then I realized that future Karkat knew exactly how that would happen, which through [incoherent time travel ramble omitted] originated from itself. Stuff being predetermined to happen is nothing new at this point but it’s still pretty mind-screwy whenever you take a moment to think about it.

FCG: I CAN’T BELIEVE I EVER THOUGHT FUTURE ME WAS THE STUPID ONE
FCG: PAST ME IS THE DUMBEST BUCKET OF FESTERING DISCHARGE I EVER FELL ASS BACKWARDS INTO. 

I mentioned two posts ago that I wanted to find when Karkat said that the only person worse than future him is past him, and this is the closest quote I found because I didn’t consider that it might have been said in a walkaround (which is when it was said).

FCG: LOOK, JADE’S NOT THAT BAD OK.
FCG: YOU JUST GOT TOO WORKED UP, AND YOU CAN’T SEE THAT.
FCG: AND NOW ALL THIS FROTHING PANDEMONIUM JUMPING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH IS JUST RIDICULOUS OVERCOMPENSATION FOR YOUR OWN SHORTCOMINGS AND MISTAKES, AND MASKING SOME FEELINGS YOU’RE NOT REALLY IN TOUCH WITH.
FCG: THIS IS ALL SO OBVIOUS, I’M FLUSHING LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER IN EMBARRASSMENT HAVING TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU, AND EVEN WORSE, REMEMBERING HAVING IT EXPLAINED TO ME BY THE SMART ONE THREE HOURS AGO AND STILL ACTING LIKE A MOIST GLOBE EVEN AFTER BEING SO SOUNDLY SCHOOLFED.
CCG: I DON’T BELIEVE THIS. PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS A JOKE.
FCG: YOU SAID SO YOURSELF, WE DON’T JOKE AROUND. IT’S JUVENILE, REMEMBER.
CCG: I’M GOING TO VOMIT.
CCG: I’M MAKING A MENTAL NOTE TO SLAP MYSELF THREE HOURS FROM NOW, FOR BEING ENOUGH OF A SAP TO START DEVELOPING RED FEELINGS FOR A DUMB ANNOYING HUMAN, IF I’M READING BETWEEN THE LINES CORRECTLY. 

This angry past/future Karkat argument reminds me of another simultaneous parallel and contrast between him and Dave: Davesprite is considerably more open about his emotions than Dave, just like future Karkat vs. past Karkat here, but Dave and Davesprite get along just fine while two Karkats will inevitably descend into a flaming argument.

?GG: future karkat, if you really are future karkat……
?GG: where do you get off thinking you can just suddenly act like were pals because you said you apologized????
?GG: if you want to apologize then great i am all ears! but just mentioning it off hand and then yelling at yourself the same way you yell at me all the time as if i need a knight to come save me from yourself is so lame, not to mention completely insane
?GG: i cant even believe the things im typing here! this is so stupid, talking to two of you at once is the worst thing imaginable
?GG: you treat everyone horribly, even yourself, i cant even fathom how awful it is to be you
?GG: past karkat, youre acting like a bigger jerk than he is and i think you know that! why dont you take his advice and grow up
?GG: as if theres even a real difference between you two. three hours is hardly any time at all, you are the same person YOU FUCKING IDIOTS!!!!!!!!! 

I really like this speech Jade gave to both Karkats on the memo. She’s calling Karkat out on exactly what’s wrong with him.

CCG: OH SHIT
FCG: YES, THAT WAS GREAT. WE BOTH HAD IT COMING, ESPECIALLY HIM. GREAT WORK JADE. 
?GG: stop it!!!!
?GG: ugh, i dont know whats worse, jerk karkat or goofy sycophant karkat
?GG: i cant stand it, whether youre trying to be nice or just being a crazy asshole, you are just so weird!!!
?GG: im through humoring you, i dont even care about this stupid exploded robot mission, whatever that was
FCG: OH RIGHT, ABOUT THAT
FCG: YEAH WE NEED TO TALK
FCG: I MEAN WE HAVE ALREADY FROM MY PERSPECTIVE
FCG: BUT YOU’RE GOING TO BE REALLY BUSY SOON, BECAUSE YOU’RE ABOUT TO ENTER YOUR SESSION
FCG: SO DON’T WORRY ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU DO, THEN JUST HIT ME UP, WE’LL TALK ABOUT IT
?GG: hahaha, FAT CHANCE!!!!
FCG: LOOK I KNOW THINGS ARE WEIRD BETWEEN US RIGHT NOW AND YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE MAD.
FCG: ESPECIALLY AT THAT LOSER.
FCG: BUT THINGS WILL CHANGE, IN TIME YOU’LL SEE I’M NOT QUITE SO AWFUL, OK? 

It doesn’t take long for John to realize that Karkat is completely harmless and just kind of bitter sometimes, but Jade thinks he’s an absolute idiot for quite some time. Also, take note of how much Jade swears in this memo.

??? turntechGodhead [?TG] AT ?:?? responded to memo.
?TG: ahahahahah oh god
?TG: dude i cant believe you were just getting on our case about hitting on the troll girls
?TG: and then literally the very next memo you are slobbering all over jade
?TG: thats just perfect hahahaha
CCG banned ?TG: from responding to memo.
FCG rebanned ?TG: from responding to memo

Dave takes a moment to call Karkat out on being, let’s face it, kind of stupid. And past and future Karkat both agree that Dave is a shitbag.

?GG: i also cant wait for past you to past drop dead and go to hell, PAST TENSE!!!!!!!!
?GG: when are those things going to happen?? or will have already past/future happened?????
?GG: i want to put another reminder on my finger so i know when its time to throw a party!!!! 

This sounds so much like something Karkat would say. Remember when in one of my Act 4 posts I went on a tangent to moan about how robotic it is to say that Dave and Rose are always sarcastic while John and Jade never are? Well here’s another example against that. I don’t mean to sound bitter.

FCG: HOW’S THIS FOR A PACT, EVERYBODY.
FCG: PAST KARKAT ONLY TALKS TO PAST JADE FROM NOW ON, AND THE TWO OF THEM CAN BICKER LIKE SHITTY LITTLE CHILDREN FOR HOURS/YEARS RESPECTIVELY.
FCG: AND FUTURE KARKAT ONLY TALKS TO FUTURE JADE, AN ARRANGEMENT WHEREIN ONLY INTELLIGENT DISCOURSE TAKES PLACE BETWEEN TWO CIVILIZED, MATURE, GROWN ASSED ADULTS.
FCG: IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?????? 

Turns out this is pretty much what Jade ends up doing later.

?GG: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa XO
?GG: i will just ban myself!!!!
?GG: *JADE HARLEY BANNED HERSELF FROM RESPONDING TO THE GRUMPY SHIT HEAD MISERY ZONE, AND IS NEVER COMING BACK*
?GG: pchoooooooooooooooo
[?GG] ceased responding to memo.
FCG: OK, THERE. SHE’S GONE.
FCG: MAYBE NOW YOU GET IT.
FCG: HOW HIDEOUS EVERYONE THINKS YOU ARE, MAYBE YOU’LL FINALLY STOP FUCKING EVERYTHING UP.
CCG: HUH
FCG: WHAT
CCG: I THINK
CCG: I WAS PROBABLY WRONG ABOUT JADE
CCG: SHE’S A LITTLE LESS LAME THAN I THOUGHT
FCG: SHHHHSHHSHSHSHSH
FCG: SHE CAN STILL READ THIS YOU STUPID FUCK
FCG: NOW’S NOT THE TIME TO OPEN YOUR VEINS AND WRITE POEMS ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS 
CCG: FUCK YOU, I’M JUST VOICING A HARMLESS OBSERVATION OK
CCG: IT’S NOT MY BUSINESS IF SOME LUNK HEAD IN THE FUTURE GETS CARRIED AWAY WITH WHATEVER LITTLE THOUGHTS I MAY OR MAY NOT NOW BE THINKING
FCG: I…
FCG: BUT
FCG: HOW COULD THAT EVEN BE A REAL THING I TYPED THREE HOURS AGO, HOW COULD I BE THIS STUPID. 

Shouldn’t future Karkat be happy that past Karkat realizes Jade isn’t that stupid? Or is the cringe at something he typed in the past that strong? I’m pretty sure most people look back on things they did in the past and think it was stupid, and for Karkat it must be so extreme that ruminating about romantic feelings that would later be a pretty real thing must make the cut as something to cringe over.

Also, Karkat is very often touted as disliking himself, but I don’t think hating yourself and hating your alternate self necessarily go hand-in-hand. As I just said, I think most people cringe at stuff they did in the past to some extent, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they hate themselves. Here’s an even better example: in one Calvin and Hobbes story arc, Calvin clones himself and he thinks his clone is a total jerk, but Calvin is as far away as can be from hating himself; he’s totally convinced that he’s a revolutionary genius.

FCG: WE ARE JUST THE DUMBEST FUCKERS WHO EVER LIVED AREN’T WE.
CCG: SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.
FCG: I DON’T EVEN HAVE THE ENERGY TO BAN US.
FCG: I’M JUST LEAVING.
[FCG] ceased responding to memo.
CCG: YEAH
[CCG] ceased responding to memo.

I like the note this memo ends on: both Karkats are exhausted, accept that they’re both idiots, and leave the memo.

Jade consults her reminders and throws away all but one of them because she can’t remember what any of them mean anymore. This is pretty obvious symbolism for Homestuck’s recurring theme of growing up, a theme I’ve seen lots of people bring up. She looks at her house to see John deploying stuff in it.

I remember that for about a week during my first read this was the page I stopped on.
For some reason, going back to this page brings back ALL the memories.

Jade consults her reminders and throws away all but one of them because she can’t remember what any of them mean anymore. This is pretty obvious symbolism for Homestuck’s recurring theme of growing up, a theme I’ve seen lots of people bring up. She looks at her house to see John deploying stuff in it.

This picture above is a bit of art weirdness: the cruxtruder is drawn in the isometric projection that’s used throughout the early acts, but the room in the background is not.

EB: i woke up on the battlefield which was on fire, and had flaming bits of prospit everywhere. 

If this sentence is shown to people who haven’t read Homestuck, they’d probably think “prospit” is a mineral or something. Just a little oddity I noticed.

GG: 😦 
GG: yes, but that was not prospit. that was its moon which was severed by the crazy derse agent 

What Jade says seems a bit nitpicky; usually Prospit and Derse are not thought of as separate entities from their respective moons.

EB: i also got your present, and it saved my life!
GG: really?? 😀
EB: yes, the bunny was so awesome, it was definitely the best bunny i got today.
EB: thank you so much, jade!
GG: ❤
EB: when jack saw it, he flew the hell away. and then the bunny and i went on an adventure together.
EB: does the bunny have a name? i asked him but i don’t think he can talk.
GG: i dont know! i did not give him one after applying the upgrades
GG: i gave her a girls name when i was very young, but now she is a different bunny, and also a boy i guess?
GG: its up to you john, he is your bunny 

What was the girl’s name Jade gave that bunny? Is it named after someone from Squiddles or something? I don’t think it’s ever stated.

EB: also, apparently i am supposed to marry rose. karkat said so.
GG: what!!!!
EB: it is true, it is a fact from an alien. 

I just love how John said that with a straight face. “It is true, it is a fact from an alien.” It’s like he’s a nine-year-old kid from a sci-fi movie who’s been fascinated with aliens all his life.

GG: ugh he is so weird 
GG: you shouldnt listen to him! 
EB: heheh, i did not take him that seriously. 
EB: but karkat is cool, he is angry and funny. 
GG: D: 
GG: he is angry and a huge pain in the ass 
GG: have you ever talked to two of him at once???? 
EB: haha, no! 
GG: dont ever do it! you will get a headache 
EB: that sounds kind of awesome. 
GG: noooooooo, think again 

It didn’t take long at all for John to warm up to Karkat compared to Jade, but then again he wasn’t in a really bad mood from a nightmare about an infinite dark Cthulhu-space.

EB: i’ve got it.
EB: i will name her liv tyler.
GG: ????
EB: the bunny.
GG: 😐
GG: you mean from armageddon?
EB: yeah!
GG: john that is so stupid
GG: but also kind of cute i guess
GG: ok then the bunny will be named after your silly movie star fantasy crush
EB: it’s too bad i can’t marry liv instead of rose.
EB: the girl i mean, not the bunny.
EB: but i guess she is probably dead now, along with all the other glamorous movie stars who come out to shine on the silver screen.
EB: that’s pretty sad. 

This is a really weird time for it to dawn on John that all his favorite movie stars are probably dead. I wonder if during the battleship journey, John wrote fanfiction of his favorite celebrities playing Sburb? He probably did.

GG: how much time do you suppose we have?
EB: i will find out now!

I didn’t expect this bit to be followed by a scene switch. If I didn’t already know what goes down in Homestuck I would’ve been pretty frustrated, but then again, by this point readers are probably used to scene switches like that.

Up next is another little sequence of panels where Jack Noir flies to LOWAS for a second battle with Dave’s bro, giving him his sword. This bit is notable because it shows us that Jack considers this guy to be a worthy opponent. I wonder what the latter was planning to do over there. Was he just exploring, or did he go there through his mysterious knowledge stuff?

I really like the little outer space view in this panel.
Also note the meteor near Earth; it’s almost like Earth’s second moon.

John drops a globe on Jade’s cruxtruder in order to open it, which brings to light the pattern theme that’s so prominent in the early acts. This sequence of pages is almost like a throwback to earlier acts, with the patterns relating to entering the game played out for Jade, and for the most part, not subverted. I think John mentions a little later that this feels so much like old times with deploying stuff around Jade’s house. Just for reference, the cruxtruder pattern goes as follows: John’s is opened with a hammer, Rose’s with a wizard statue, Dave’s with a toilet, and Jade’s with a globe. Remember the Jade pattern breaking count I took back in Act 3? Well, I just thought up another thing that might count. (15?) Among the four beta kids, Jade is the only one who opens her client player’s cruxtruder by accident. It’s kind of a stretch because the noted instance of this pattern is not the one that occurs last, and probably more of Dave’s instance of a pattern than Jade’s. Don’t worry though, later we’ll have a few stronger instances of Jade breaking patterns.

EB: ok, we have 10 minutes and 25 seconds.
GG: hmmmm i wonder what the significance of that number is
EB: why would it be significant?
EB: numbers don’t always need to have significance!
GG: but they usually do! 

This isn’t the first time Jade broke the fourth wall. Remember in Act 3 when Jade (not really) let the reader try playing Memory with her items and regrets breaking the fourth wall, as the narration explicitly states? Homestuck has a lot of lines that might count as breaking the fourth wall, or at least leaning on it.

EB: hey, what do you think we should prototype this fussy little orb with?
EB: heheheh, it seems like so long ago that rose fed mine a clown.
EB: we were just messing around, we didn’t even know what we were doing.
GG: i dont know…
GG: there are so many possibilities
EB: yeah… 

EB: it’s almost like your grandpa put all this crap here knowing we’d have to make that decision.
GG: hmmmmmm!
GG: yes, it sure seems that way
EB: he seems like he was an awesome guy, i would have liked to have the chance to talk to him.
GG: well
GG: maybe you will get that chance john
EB: oh?
GG: yes, as a matter of fact i am sure we will both get that chance!
GG: i once dreamt that we would 

This exchange is really enticing the mystery of what Jade’s sprite will be prototyped with. Through what we know so far, Jade’s promise that she and John will both get the chance to meet her grandpa during the game is very heavily directing readers to the idea of Grandpasprite. And this whole scene’s also implicitly directing readers to the idea of Bec prototyping himself, because both he and Grandpa’s body are next to the kernelsprite, and because of Hussie’s affinity for red herrings. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to guess that Bec and Grandpa will both be prototyped into Jade’s sprite, leading to what I’ve seen people call “Grandpawsprite”.

Arguably, Jade and John’s supposed meeting with Grandpa is still an unanswered question as of the Omegapause. She’s most likely talking about meeting Jake, but if that’s the case, it’s a little dubious whether Jade would recognize him as her grandpa, so it’s not 100% clear. I’m personally unsure if I’d recognize young versions of my parents.

EB: huh…
EB: wait, are you saying we will prototype him?
EB: like i did with nanna, to bring her ghost back to life?
EB: as…
EB: another ghost?
GG: sure, why not!
EB: i guess that makes a lot of sense, actually.
GG: that is what i believe this game is for in part
GG: you got to bring back your nanna, rose brought back her cat, i can bring back grandpa, and dave…
GG: dave got to bring back a dead bird because of course he is too cool to have any dead family members 

This bit where John and Jade discuss the possibility of prototyping Grandpa is one hell of a red herring.

EB: i just messaged [dave], he is not answering. 

The youngest instance of Dave at this point, the one wearing the black suit, is clearly still asleep, but are there really no other Daves running around to answer John? The same goes a bit later where Rose and Jade both pester Dave but get a confused consort instead. Or do all the Daves out there just think friends pestering them is past Dave business?

EB: what do we do about prototyping?
EB: we shouldn’t put your grandpa in yet, unless we want lots of imps and ogres and stuff that look like your grandpa.
GG: augh, nooooooooooooooo

Grandpa imps are surprisingly easy to imagine: just picture an imp, then picture it with Grandpa’s facial features. Maybe with his hat for good measure.

EB: we could put in something really lame, to make all the monsters weaker!
EB: or at the very least, more ridiculous looking.
EB: like one of these weird pictures of blue ladies lying around.

If both of you are OK with Grandpa mixed with a blue lady, then go ahead, chuck in one of those things! That would be a seriously absurd and messed up thing. We’ve had two sprites much later that are of ambiguous gender due to being a combination of a male and female, the former of which promptly exploded but the latter of which is very satisfied with their existence. Someone’s probably drawn Blue-Lady-Grandpasprite or whatever you want to call it.

Apparently he stitched up Cal. Rose is also into knitting so that might be a parallel between her and Dirk?

Davesprite successfully finds his bro and joins him in the fight. This is important because it shows that Davesprite still cares about his guardian to an extent, enough that he wants to catch up with him. This is much unlike how regular Dave, after a year without his guardian, makes it clear that he doesn’t want to meet his kid bro. What’s up with that difference? Davesprite didn’t assume his bro was dead during his timeline, but Dave knew for a fact that he’s gone, so maybe that’s why? Or did it take more than four months for Dave to realize his bro was messed up? Or did living on a meteor without puppets and swords everywhere make Dave realize that faster?

Davesprite choosing to fight with his guardian might support my theory I mentioned last post that Davesprite has more respect for Bro than Dave does.

EB: what is this thing, anyway??
EB: and why is it blocking your transporter?
GG: it is some sort of terrible creature my grandpa hunted
GG: he called it the typheus minion
GG: i always hated it! 

So Jade apparently completely believed her grandpa when he said that was a hideous monster he hunted. Is she like the kind of fictional kid who believes all sorts of nonsense her parents say? In the movie Instructions Not Included, the little girl spent the first seven years of her life believing everything her dad made up about her mom, who is supposedly never with her because she travels around the world saving people’s lives. But this is a pretty bad analogy because in Homestuck her grandpa’s crazy adventure exploits are very real.

EB: typheus?
EB: like the web browser?
GG: i guess so
GG: it is probably a coincidence though
EB: hmm, i don’t know…
EB: if you think numbers always mean something, why wouldn’t browser names?
GG: yeah maybe…..
GG: i guess it would make sense for someone to name a really awful web browser after such a hideous monster
EB: wow, you sure do hate that thing!
GG: well sorry, i just found it sort of a weird and creepy thing to grow up with!
EB: i think it is pretty cool.
EB: and he is actually sort of cute to be honest, :p
GG: :p!!!!!!
EB: oh, and screw you, typheus is an awesome browser!
EB: it is old school.
GG: joooohhhhhn, it is so crappy
EB: typheus is the best and that’s really all there is to say on the matter.
GG: YEAH RIGHT
GG: now is obviously not the best time to have the argument about whose browser is better….
GG: but really john you should upgrade to echidna, its so much nicer 

I love this exchange about web browsers. This is the closest Homestuck gets to directly referencing the fact that the kids’ browsers are all named after their respective denizens. I once saw a theory that Skaianet developed all of those browsers. It’s a little weird how no other time has anyone noted that their denizen shares a name with their favorite web browser. I’d be pretty surprised if I played Sburb with some hypothetical Firefox geek friend and it turns out that my denizen is called Chrome and his is called Firefox. But putting real-life browsers here just doesn’t have the same effect because they aren’t named after ancient Greek stuff, at least not the popular ones.

How does dropping a big stuffed object comically clump up everything?
Also, nice touch: Grandpa’s hat fell on the cruxtruder. What would prototyping a hat do? Is that even possible?

EB: in my foolishness, i came very close to prototyping your grandpa.
GG: D:
GG: john, try to be more careful!
EB: we very nearly had to face our grandfatherly paradox-dad as a last boss.
EB: that would probably be the worst case scenario. 

The dramatic irony is so delicious. Even though said irony is only a thing if you’re rereading, it’s still delicious.

Just got through another 50 pages, so I’ll stop here. See you next time as I extensively, and I mean EXTENSIVELY, comment on a flash which is one of my favorites.

>>  Part 34: Villain Caninification Station

Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 32: The Bard of Fuck I Forgot

Introduction

Part 31 | Part 32 | Part 33 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 5 of 32

Pages 2793-2840 (MSPA: 4693-4740)



I am debating with myself whether it’s clichéd to start putting in “Where I…” between the title pictures of my posts and the first pictures. Because I want to have something between those pictures or it just looks awkward. Then again I have nothing between the title and following pictures in many of the posts where I retroactively added title pictures.


John connects to Jade and gets ready to do some important stuff until…

She’s back!


Nanna makes her classic pranking entrance and summons a bed to catch John and his stuff.

JOHN: nanna, what the heck!!!
NANNASPRITE: Hoo hoo hoo!
NANNASPRITE: John, you remind me so much of your father when he was your age. He was just as easily bested by this crafty old prankstress!
JOHN: really?
NANNASPRITE: Yes. It would be many years before he would take the gambit in an exchange with your nanna.
JOHN: but nanna, did you know he is not really my dad? and also, i am not technically your grandson.
JOHN: you are actually sort of my mother.
NANNASPRITE: Of course I knew this, John! I have known for many years. 

It’s never really stated how the guardians know all that stuff; the deal with them is that they somehow know stuff about Sburb. Did she know this through being raised by the Condesce who also seemed to know stuff about Sburb?

NANNASPRITE: I have also known that in a sense, you are my father as well. You were the one to push all those buttons, after all! 
JOHN: huh, oh yeah. 
JOHN: don’t you find it all a little strange? 
NANNASPRITE: John, I am the ghost of an old lady with one arm who is dressed like a clown. Why would that seem strange to me?

This might be my favorite Nannasprite line.

NANNASPRITE: Yes! It seems you have been rising through the rungs of your echeladder quite swiftly. 
JOHN: yeah! 
JOHN: now i am an ectobiolo… 
JOHN: ectobiblio… shit! 
JOHN: (oops! sorry.) 

John here apologizes for swearing in front of Nanna. Some people seem to think that John only ever uses the so-called “minced oaths” (like gosh and darn), but here he lets out a profanity in front of his grandma.

NANNASPRITE: Yes, that is quite high. You have climbed so much faster than I did in my youth. I am so proud of you! 

Is Nanna saying that she, too, had an echeladder as a kid?? I never realized that. If she’s saying what I think she is, I guess Homestuck’s game mechanics have existed in the comic’s world before video games even existed. That’s weird to imagine, young George Washington achieving the [insert goofy name here] rank and earning 2000 boondollars or whatever for doing whatever he did as a kid.



NANNASPRITE: Here, John. Take this.

JOHN: ok. what is it? 
NANNASPRITE: You can use it to summon me wherever you go. 
NANNASPRITE: Now we needn’t endure those long spells without a good visit! 
JOHN: oh cool, that is great! 

Didn’t John talk to Nannasprite from afar in the Act 4 opening minigame? It’s never really explained how that was done.

Nanna prepares some food for John and…


So, are Chinese finger traps among the inventory of stuff Nanna can summon or what?


This transitions us to Rose with her laptop next to her, hassled by three trolls.


This is the first of several non-walkaround scenes that are shown in 8-bit mode.
It would’ve been cool if there was a little selection screen to pick which troll to answer first.


These chumps just won’t quit hounding you! 

It’s like they heard somebody over here was handing out asses, and they’ve known nothing but years of bitter ass famine.

I automatically read the second sentence in Let’s Read Homestuck’s Dave voice. If I’m bored I’ll often just watch one of their videos, and I’ve gotten pretty used to all their voices.

And here’s the first appearance of this new painting-like art style. It didn’t really stick.


CA: wwho are you tryin to convvince wwith this ludicrous poppycock 
TT: ? 
CA: magic is NOT REAL 
CA: wwhatevver youre doin its not real its somethin else outright entirely 
CA: its fancy and impressivve and all but its not the fuckin figmental storybook claptrap you wwanna make out like it is 
CA: so howw about you get off your high skyhorse 
TT: Why do you keep addressing me as if I’m some sort of spokesperson for the reality of magic? 
TT: You can’t needle me into a defensive posture on the subject. I just don’t care. 
CA: youre not usin magic just DEAL WW IT 
TT: Fine. You win. 
TT: These are science wands. I am a charlatan. 

Is this where Eridan got the idea for his science s(h)tick (I’m so proud of this pun)?

CA: wwell fine you dont havve to behavve vvillainous if youre bent up on actin against the grain a your nobility or somesuch 
CA: i can play that role its not like i evver didnt get my gils dirty before 
TT: Nobility? What are you talking about? 
CA: wwell arent you 
TT: No. What gave you that idea? 
CA: the wway you 
CA: ok 
CA: i had a misconclusion about that so my fault 
CA: obvviously you got rich blood so maybe when you crash landed you wwerent recognized for it by wwhatevver vvehicle upholds the class structure in human society 
TT: That is exactly what happened. You figured it out. 
CA: must of been fuckin brutal raisin up a commonblood wwhen you knew you wwere better than evverybody and its probably got you all messed up inside but maybe theres hope for you 
CA: see i got a lot a experience bein nobility so ill let you knoww if you got a shot in hell at cuttin it pinkscarf 
TT: … 
CA: fakemage pinkscarf howw does that sound 
TT: You’re a complete idiot. 

This is one of several times troll misconceptions cause the kids to think “what the fuck are you talking about”. Eridan here is falsely deducing a whole weird idea of what Rose’s life was like, which reminds me of John speculating about the trolls being time travelers sent to study humans a few posts ago. Also, I love Rose’s last line in that bit I quoted.

CA: see this is good i think this could be a good thing 
TT: What? 
CA: this thing wwe got goin 
CA: you obvviously hate me and i think i got it in me to get the dark propensities smolderin 
CA: and wwere both obvviously dangerous elites in nature 
CA: i think theres somethin there i mean look at howw you evven came into the wworld 
TT: And how was that? 
CA: killed a fuckin fuck ton of marine life accidental 
CA: doin thats all i evver done practically the ocean wwas my killin cauldron 

It’s amusing as shit the way this guy hits on people.

TT: Accidentally? 
TT: Or on porpoise? 

Eridan probably saw this fish pun, obviously meant as mockery, as advances to him or something.

CA: wwell fine you dont havve to behavve vvillainous if youre bent up on actin against the grain a your nobility or somesuch 
CA: i can play that role its not like i evver didnt get my gils dirty before 
TT: Nobility? What are you talking about? 
CA: wwell arent you 
TT: No. What gave you that idea? 
CA: the wway you 
CA: ok 
CA: i had a misconclusion about that so my fault 
CA: obvviously you got rich blood so maybe when you crash landed you wwerent recognized for it by wwhatevver vvehicle upholds the class structure in human society 
TT: That is exactly what happened. You figured it out. 
CA: must of been fuckin brutal raisin up a commonblood wwhen you knew you wwere better than evverybody and its probably got you all messed up inside but maybe theres hope for you 
CA: see i got a lot a experience bein nobility so ill let you knoww if you got a shot in hell at cuttin it pinkscarf 
TT: … 
CA: fakemage pinkscarf howw does that sound 
TT: You’re a complete idiot. 

We don’t actually see much of trolls teaching kids troll romance. The whole little part where John <3< Terezi is established as a potential thing is an example but I’m not sure there’s that much else. Oh, and Kanaya telling Rose stuff about troll romance in that date scene which I like to think is a parody of lesbian fanfictions.

CA: yeah and in return maybe you could teach me howw to bullshit magic like that 
TT: You want to learn magic? 
CA: yes teach me your secrets wwitch 
TT: Sure. Let’s begin. 
TT: Consider this your first lesson in showmanship.


caligulasAquarium’s [CA’S] computer exploded.

What’s better than remotely blowing up someone’s computer? It almost seems like the Thorns of Oglogoth, like sprite powers, have new powers as the plot demands: blasting dark magic to kill enemies, destroying and levitating buildings from afar, flying yourself around, and now blowing up computers in other incipispheres.

— apocalypseArisen [AA] began trolling tentacleTherapist [TT] —

AA: what d0 y0u think y0ure d0ing!

Aradia’s first line in her conversation with Rose has an exclamation point. When dead Aradia uses exclamation points, that’s how you know shit must be serious.

AA: just st0p
AA: st0p st0p st0p st0p st0p st0p
AA: maybe if i say st0p en0ugh s0mething else will happen instead 0f the thing that d0es 
TT: Hi.
AA: y0u arent g0ing t0 st0p are y0u
TT: Do you want me to stop using magic too?
AA: n0 i d0nt care ab0ut that
AA: its y0ur quest t0 tear y0ur sessi0n apart
AA: i kn0w its exciting
AA: breaking stuff
AA: and n0t w0rrying ab0ut it
AA: but there are c0nsequences t0 hum0ring y0ur destructive impulses
AA: and c0nsequences t0 f0ll0wing
TT: ?
AA: what they say
TT: Who?
AA: y0u kn0w wh0 

Here we have the fatalistic troll warning someone who’s being the exact opposite of fatalistic that what she’s doing won’t work. And the worst part here is, she’s actually right. Rose ends up being something of a pawn, her destructive actions being exactly what’s “supposed to happen”.

AA: i just wish
AA: back when i was behaving recklessly
AA: i had s0me0ne t0 tell me t0 st0p listening
AA: even if i ended up ign0ring their advice
AA: it w0uld have been nice 

Maybe Sollux could’ve served that role? He’s a pretty anti-fatalistic guy, with his intents to do good rather than to serve forces of destiny. But he probably accepted that his and Aradia’s inner voices are just a thing that exists, especially because low-blooded trolls tend to have psychic abilities like that.

TT: What did they tell you?
AA: i was assured i w0uld be saving my race 

Aradia said in the trolls’ arc that she knew that creating Sburb would destroy the world and that she merely tricked Sollux into creating it by telling him otherwise. Did she used to think that their actions would save the race until her voices told her otherwise or what?

AA: which is maybe still true i d0nt kn0w
AA: but if it is then it will be the punchline t0 the vast j0ke
TT: Is that anything like the ultimate riddle? 

I wonder if Rose knows at this point what the Ultimate Riddle is. Karkat explained it to John back in Act 4, and Rose may have figured it out from all the planet exploration/destruction quest stuff she’s been doing. We saw how much she already knew in that conversation with John a while back.

AA: im thr0ugh with c0nsci0usly c0ntributing t0 inevitable 0utc0mes
TT: Well,
TT: Aren’t you doing that regardless? Right now?
AA: 0bvi0usly
AA: but im just talking
AA: maybe the things i say will indirectly trigger y0ur critical acti0ns
AA: maybe n0t wh0 kn0ws
AA: maybe!!! 

OK, the way Aradia acted in Alterniabound clearly wasn’t a one-off thing; she has indeed become pretty bitter after becoming a robot.

AA: didnt see that 0ne c0ming did y0u pspace??? + ?*rand(413^612)
AA: oh look and now i suddenly refuse to type zeroes in my sentences
AA: isnt that crazy! who thought that was even a possibility
AA: bslick never would have imagined THAT little vestibule of probability was tucked somewhere in his huge glistening blow sack
AA: ribbit ribbit ribbit
AA: WILL YOU LOOK AT THAT
AA: I JUST CONTROLLED THE RIBBITS AND I DID IT DELIBERATELY
TT: O_O
AA: hahaha!
AA: 0h w0w im sure y0u were just being faceti0us with that but y0u have n0 idea h0w funny that is right n0w
AA: y0u had n0 way 0f kn0wing thats a thing i d0 all the time but with zer0es
AA: this is great
AA: i think im 0n t0 s0mething here
AA: maybe if i dig deep en0ugh int0 my circuitry and rer0ute all 0f my reserve p0wer thr0ugh my quantum based rand0m number generat0r i can pr0duce behavi0r s0 c0mpletely 0ff the wall that parad0x space will have n0 ch0ice but t0 change everything!
TT: You have circuitry?
AA: maybe i will also rig my p0wer s0urce t0 the 0utc0me 0f the functi0n and rand0mly bl0w myself up!
AA: that w0uld be just
AA: really
AA: really
AA: really*rand(rand(rand(rand(rand(0M)*0M)*0M)*0M)*0M) where 0M = s0me number drawn quite at rand0m fr0m 0ne 0f y0ur absurd human hats
AA: !~M~0~D~N~A~R 

Here’s a weird fit Aradia throws about predestination. It’s followed shortly by a command for Aradia to randomly explode—it’s convincing and easy to fall for, but she denies the command, not even doing it in the following page. I fell for that command in my second read.

Apparently she’s standing on top of that captcha-card-shaped thing. Out of context it just looks like a staircase. I guess she flew on there but it’s still weird.


AC: :33 < pst :oo
TT: Yes?
AC: :33 < heyyyyyyyyyy
TT: Why, what ever could you want?
AC: :33 < ummmmmmmmmm
TT: What could it be? I am completely confounded.
AC: :33 < sorry to bother you again!
AC: :33 < is
AC: :33 < um
TT: Is what?
AC: :33 < he available?
TT: Who?
TT: What is the name of this mystery fellow you seek?
AC: :33 < aaaaa youre just teasing me now!
AC: :33 < i f33l bad about bugging you about it
AC: :33 < but do you think you could purrhaps please spare your computer for just the most fl33ting of moments?
AC: :33 < i miss pounce a lot :((
AC: :33 < and talking to him reminds me of her
AC: :33 < sorry for the hassle 

Nepeta is really apologetic here. I guess this is what happened to her view of the kids after trying and failing to befriend them as she says she did in Alterniabound.

TT: It’s ok. I understand.
TT: I think I have a more permanent solution.
TT: I mean purrmanent.
AC: :33 < yay! :OO

This pun here seems more friendly than mockery like in her conversation with Eridan. Rose has clearly warmed up to the trolls. She and Dave seem to have generally thought the trolls to be a bunch of morons rather than rude assholes.


Rose summons Jaspersprite and gives him her old laptop, obvious outgrowing symbolism here. I think the deal with her arc at this point might be growing up too fast? It’s only been like 8 hours or something and this much stuff has happened. I guess that’s webcomic time for you.

JASPERSPRITE: Did you learn to play the rain rose?
ROSE: Not yet, Jaspers.
ROSE: It’s a little complicated, but I believe I’ve embarked on another quest, one which surpasses the scope of the objectives local to this planet.
JASPERSPRITE: Meow what :3
ROSE: I’m saying there’s something more important to accomplish now. Something more important than creating a universe.
JASPERSPRITE: Oh thats ok rose i wouldnt want you to feel obligated to do that.
JASPERSPRITE: I think that winning this game and getting the prize is up to you and your friends.
JASPERSPRITE: You get to decide whether or not you feel its right to do that and what kind of prize you want to make!
JASPERSPRITE: Its part of becoming who youre supposed to become i think.
JASPERSPRITE: But i really think you should consider going on the quest i said anyway! 

It’s been canonically brought up that maybe wrecking stuff was Rose’s real quest tied in with her real development of a person and playing the rain was just a fake thing. But Jaspersprite does seem to be honest here about Rose’s planet quest. As I said in Act 4, many readers are convinced Rose will end up playing the rain one way or another, and this may be the main reason why.

JASPERSPRITE: It was fun getting to be your cat again rose even if it was just for a little while and also while being a princess ghost. 
JASPERSPRITE: Bye rose! 

These lines bring Jaspersprite’s return to relevance as Jasprosesprite^2 being a thing to mind. At first she found cat and owner combining with each other to be a great thing for both of them, but now she’s suffering exactly what’s happening with Davesprite, which is why I feel that squared sprite won’t last forever. Maybe she’ll unfuse somehow and the Rose she was can return to catching up with the meteor crew’s version from her timeline. Maybe unfusing sprites is within Dirk’s arsenal of god tier abilities? I’m not sure. I kind of hope that happens in some way, given how Jasprose talked about her sadness about not being able to be with Kanaya and whatnot.

ROSE: See you, Jaspers! 
ROSE: If you see my mother in the course of your travels, tell her I said hello. 
JASPERSPRITE: Ok I will do that! :3

This bit brings Jaspersprite’s whole reunion with Roxy way later to mind.


Dave talks to another batch of three trolls.

TC: AlRiGhT My pInKeSt oF MoThErFuCkIn sTaR MoNkEyS 
TC: ArE YoU ReAdY 
TC: To gEt tHe hOrNs yOu dOnT HaVe 
TC: CoNfIsCaTeD AlL LiKe tHe mOtHeRfUcKiN HoNkTrAbAnD ThEy aRe 
TC: BeInG AlL IlLiCiT As tHe vAsT JoKe iTsElF 
TC: AnD ThEn 
TC: HaNdEd aT RiGhT BaCk tO YoU? 
TG: what 
TC: HaHa, SeE BrO, tHiS Is hOw i rOlL 
TC: I SuPpLy tHe hOrNs tOwArD YoU, mEtApHoRiCaLlY SpEaKiNg 
TC: SeE, lIkE 
TC: ThAt’s kInD Of a tRoLl mEtApHoR 
TC: YoU GeTtInG YoUr hOrNs aLl hAnDeD To yOu, If yOu pEePs aNaToMiCaLlY WeRe sUcH To bE LiKe tHaT 
TC: DoInG ThAt’s tO MeAn lIkE YoU GoT MoThErFuCkIn sAsSeD OuT 
TC: As iN TrOlLeD 
TC: BuT BrO WhEn i tElL ThAt nOiSe aT YoU 
TC: Im lIkE DoInG 
TC: A DoUbLe mEtApHoR AlL ThE WaY 
TC: AcRoSs sKaIa :o) 
TC: BeCaUsE My hOrNs iM AlL AbOuT ArE ThEsE FuNnY HoNk hOrNs InStEaD oF hEaD hOrNs 
TC: LiKe wHaT DoEs cLoWnS UsE 
TC: AnD WhEn i’m aLl tO InViTe yOu tO GeT A LiTtLe mOtHeRfUcKiN SqUeEzE On 
TC: It’lL Be a dOwNeD In, StRaIgHt fLaT, bOaRd sIdEd mIrAcLe iF YoU DoN’T GeT ScArEd sHiTtEnT ClOwNcArS 
TC: ThAt’s hOw wE PlAy tHe mOtHeRfUcKiN GaMe 
TC: HoNk hOnK >:o) 
TG: oh god thats right 
TG: you were the best troll 
TG: i remember now 
TC: WhOa, I WaS? 
TG: yeah 
TG: i mean 
TG: in the most ironic and hilarious ways possible 
TG: but that really shouldnt even need to be said 
TC: ShIt, I MuSt hAvE GoT To nOt rEmEmBeRiNg tHiS SoMeHoW 

Here Gamzee’s doing what Dave says the trolls always do, ranting about how hard he’s about to get trolled with no ensuing substance. In his other conversation with Dave, after becoming evil, he is seriously mad at him and is trolling him, which is actually effective. I think this gives a decent contrast between Gamzee’s good and evil states.

TG: it was months ago for me 
TG: you did your bizarrely oblivious juggalo thing 
TG: then bitched and moaned at me for ruining your religion or some horseshit 
TG: like i guess a weird crisis in faith i dunno 
TG: and then 
TG: you kinda got over that i guess 
TG: and we both proceeded to have one of the best rap-offs in the history of paradox space 
TG: remember 

Here’s Dave foreshadowing Gamzee turning evil: his religion is ruined, and he’s suddenly apparently not awful at rapping. His evil twist comes as a shock to readers but is plenty foreshadowed: in this conversation several times and on this page. This is also the first time Gamzee is referred to as a juggalo.

TC: My mInD’S NoT ThAt sHaRp nOw tHoUgH, iT’S BeEn aGeS SiNcE I HaD A GoOd pIe 

Don’t those pies rot Gamzee’s brain? He apparently thinks the contrary. This is also more foreshadowing. It’s already known that those slime pies, which Gamzee is addicted to, do funny things to a troll’s brain, so when he’s low on pies, his brain won’t be so funny.

TG: could be time shit 
TG: you might not have had the conversation yet 
TC: DoGg, I DoN’T KnOw tHaT Im aT A PlAcE To eVeN CoNtEmPlAtE FoR EnTeRtAiNiNg tHaT KiNd oF ThInG 
TC: I DoN’T GeT TiMe 
TC: I WaSn’t tHe dUdE Of tImE 
TC: I WaS ThE 
TC: ThE MoThErFuCkIn 
TC: BaRd oF 
TC: FuCk 
TC: I FoRgOt :o( 

Even more foreshadowing. Gamzee forgot his own god tier title, and the fact that half of it is still withheld suggests that there’s more to him than we’ve seen.

TG: dude i was telling you 
TG: youve got to check this out 
TG: trust me itll lift your spirits shit will all make sense to you finally 
TG: youll finally figure out who you are and why you worship all this ridiculous clown bullshit 
TC: Oh, MaN 
TC: ThIs sOuNdS AmAzInG, i cAn’t sEe hOw i wOuLdN’T Be aLl kIcKiNg tHe wIcKeD ShIt oUt Of sUcH KiNdS Of oPpOrTuNiTiEs 
TG: and also why your planet has faygo for some baffling reason
TG: actually no nevermind it doesnt explain that 
TG: that still makes no damn sense 
TG: but like 
TG: the thing youre looking for 
TG: your dark clownish salvation or whatever the fuck 
TG: your mirthful messiahs 
TG: ahahahaha i cant even type that without lmao 
TG: anyway theyre here dude 
TG: check it out 
TG: http://tinyurl.com/MoThErFuCkInMiRaClEs 
TC: :oO

The weird thing is, in Homestuck’s universe juggalos were probably inspired by people’s subconscious knowlege of Gamzee, rather than Gamzee being inspired by juggalos. The subjugglators are obviously a clown thing which I think was led by Gamzee’s ancestor, and Dirk mentioned that the Condesce was rumored to have recruited the ICP as dual presidents because they resembled her old form of government. In Homestuck as a comic, Gamzee is based on juggalos. In Homestuck’s universe, juggalos are based on Gamzee.

Gamzee watches the video and the panels progress like so…


He looks awed here…
This would look like a game face on Karkat but real irritation on Gamzee.
We’ve NEVER seen him angry like this. This is such a Karkat face.
Holy SHIT.


For the first time in the comic, he’s ANGRY. I can’t help but wonder what it would be like if the other trolls learned about the stuff Hussie based them on. What if Eridan watched all the Harry Potter movies? Or Kanaya read the Twilight saga? Or Tavros watched some Peter Pan cartoon?

— centaursTesticle [CT] began trolling turntechGodhead [TG] —

CT: D –> I’m attempting to determine what it is that ranks humans in their class stru%ure 

Equius’s first line here is letting you know, this conversation’s gonna be a doozy. Dave’s obviously gonna fuck with that troll some more, but this conversation’s going to soon go into an interesting direction which I’ll discuss as the conversation goes on.

TG: on earth class is sorted out by who can drop the most delirious flow 
CT: D –> I see 
CT: D –> So, in other words, a sort of b100d letting ritual 
CT: D –> To assess whose pulse is steadiest and thus whose flow is the most STRONG 
TG: no 
TG: well yeah 
TG: verbal pulse 
TG: rap battles 
TG: the kings of wordtech ascend to godhood and look down on us patriarchally like urban watermarks in the sky 
TG: this is like 
TG: our religion man 
TG: its fucking serious business its like what our whole culture revolves around 
CT: D –> Really 
CT: D –> So your social e%elons are dictated by the noble artform of the ancient slam poets 
CT: D –> Or the Earth equivalent 

What Dave says here reminds me of Terezi’s joking statements about what trolls do (sniffing each other’s sentences, having a troll Jegus). I guess that’s a parallel between those two.

TG: yeah well 
TG: used to be dictated 
TG: til the rapocalypse happened 
TG: i still believe though 
TG: in my heart so long as it keeps thumping the righteous beat
TG: subwoofing out devotion every which way 
TG: that he will come 
TG: our savior 
TG: was foretold hed come after meteors show up to drop it like its hot 
TG: and hed gather up the ashes of our civilization and lift it like its heavy 
TG: fuck im tearing up my ishades are gonna fry 
CT: D –> I believe 
CT: D –> That this is probably nonsense 

This shows that Equius, despite his let’s say problem, does have some sense in his mind.

CT: D –> I’ve already been hornswoggled repeatedly by your comrades, who I quite reasonably mistook for your superiors in b100dline 
CT: D –> Your race makes a habit of deception, and I will not tolerate it 

Hey, aren’t trolls all about doublecrossing, especially in Equius’s caste? I guess that “deception” could be distinct from what trolls like doing so much. Also, his misconception about humans’ apparent “habit of deception” is amusing; it’s more like if a bunch of dumb douchebags keep asking you about human culture, it’s funnier to make shit up. Also because humans don’t have a fucking caste system, at least not a universal one.

TG: hahahahaha 
TG: douche 
CT: D –> Did I say something entertaining 

The deal with Equius is that he never tells jokes but is absurdly hilarious in the most fucked up ways just by being himself.

TG: if youre gonna spit that kind of bravado at me im just saying put it in rhyme 
TG: lets hear what you got tooly mcsnoothole 
CT: D –> I try to stay engaged with many aristocratic practices 
CT: D –> But I’m not much of a poet 
TG: come on 
CT: D –> My poems are private 
TG: whatever dude 
TG: deprivatize them 
CT: D –> If you’re prepared to be particularly forceful about it 
CT: D –> I may be suitably disgusted to comply 
TG: just 
TG: take whatevers in there 
TG: that brorage lust youre feelin 
TG: turn that bitch inside out like a broke ass millionaires pockets 
CT: D –> Yes 
CT: D –> Those are the sorts of assertive statements which could get me 
CT: D –> Flowing 

Eww. This is such obvious innuendo I don’t even know what to say.

Dave’s rap has a few lines worth commenting on:

TG: more chock full than sad trollian villains cloggin my blocklist 

Apparently Dave does block the trolls, even though he clearly never was as aggravated by them as John and Jade, mostly thinking they’re a bunch of idiots.

TG: so thoughtful to popul- 
TG: -ate my slate with propositions to copulate to a spate of hemoerotic hotpix 

I love the word “hemoerotic” Dave coined. It’s punny and describes Equius’s “thing” pretty aptly.

CT: D –> But perhaps 
CT: D –> To divine class divides in unclassified swine is butchering time 
CT: D –> Your fauna I find requires too little strength to savage in rhyme 
CT: D –> I fear inferiors have monopolized my highest priorities 
CT: D –> Let’s eschew crude inferiors, pursue nude superiorities 
CT: D –> Review z001ogical peculiarities, great stalking enormities 
CT: D –> Fle%ing in unison, baying at moons within fraternal sororities 
TG: holy shit 
TG: what 
CT: D –> Great musclebeasts tussle, bu%om in heft 
CT: D –> With thunderous muscle, buttock to spec 
TG: what the fuck 
CT: D –> Connect blows to discover, how invincible pecs are 
CT: D –> Venture low to uncover, his inimitable nectar 
TG: oh god 
TG: ok stop 

Here Equius, just by being himself, creeps Dave out. Meanwhile, the trolls who are actually trying to be angry flamers all either get their ass handed to them or their victims’ eyes rolled all over their faces. Sometimes the best trolls are the ones that don’t try hard.

This picture exemplifies the weirdness of this new art style. The shade on the left of Dave’s head looks almost like he has a huge ear like he’s a monkey or something.
I’ve heard theories that this art style is deliberately kind of awkward, but I think it’s just regular weirdness.


CT: D –> Giving up on the treasure so easily 
CT: D –> It strikes me as an artifact rooted in universal lore of nobility 
CT: D –> As valuable an asset as strength is 
CT: D –> And as much as anyone with his wits is fond of being STRONG 
CT: D –> Such weapons require finesse to operate 
CT: D –> And surely in this case, to retrieve without damaging
CT: D –> Hence your no doubt frustrating restraint 

Equius seems to think that people all have the same mindset and weird problems he does.

TG: ok im kinda starting to wonder why youre bugging me now 
TG: youre a fuckin creepy dude 

Dave outright admits that this dude creeps him out. As I said earlier, he’s an effective troll without trying to be effective.

CT: D –> Yes, and now, being learned in the ways of STRONGNESS
CT: D –> You like myself are unfortunately limited in the weaponry you may wield 
CT: D –> Ironically the training which has ennobled you beyond others has made instruments of high b100d brittle in your hands
CT: D –> Hence the state of your favored weapon, hobbling your specibus 
CT: D –> I know what this is like 
TG: man 
TG: im not that strong ok 

TG: just cause i broke a cheap ass sword doesnt make me the fucking hulk 

Oh, I guess that’s what Equius was talking about with Dave breaking swords easily.


Dave retrieves that sword from I guess slicing a column in half? It’s kind of hard to see how that worked. Equius gets horny I mean sweaty and dries off:



That little funny moment is over, time for more Dave/Terezi dialogue. I think Dave here is saving the best for last.

GC: D4V3 GR34T N3WS! 
GC: 1 FOUND 4 DR4W1NG T4BL3T 
GC: DO YOU KNOW WH4T TH4T M34NS D4V3? 
GC: DO YOU KNOW WH4T 1T M34NS W3 C4N G3T? 
TG: please dont say this party started please dont say this party started 
GC: TH1S 
GC: P4RTY 
GC: ST4RT3D!!!!! >8D 
TG: god everything is about parties with you 
GC: D4V3 TH3R3 1S NOTH1NG 3V3N CLOS3 TO B31NG B3TT3R TH4N P4RT13S, COM3 ON 
TG: ok 
TG: lets see some fine art then 
GC: WHY 1T JUST SO H4PP3NS TH4T 1 H4V3 4 FR3SH M4ST3RP13C3 FOR YOU 
GC: HOT OFF TH3 C4NV4S 
GC: 4ND ON TO YOUR COMPUT3R GL4SS3S 
GC: WH3R3 1T W1LL S1ZZL3 YOUR 3Y3B4LLS 
GC: TSSSSSSSSSSSSSS http://tinyurl.com/D4V3XD4V3 

I’m pretty sure that so far in this act, no Dave and Terezi conversation has gone without linking to a silly comic or gif or whatever.

GC: 1 4LR34DY 3XPL41N3D TH1S TO YOU D4V3 
GC: TH3 COOLK1D H4S TO B3 TH3 B3ST, 4ND 1 H4V3 TO M4K3 H1M TH3 B3ST 
TG: alright but 
TG: i mean even if that made sense which it kind of doesnt 
TG: karkat was saying how it was all a game and youre just flirtin and stuff 
TG: and that we should quit it because he doesnt want you in my grill or me in yours or whatever 
GC: OH, 1S TH4T WH4T H3 S41D??? 
GC: HMM 1 WOND3R 1F H3 COULD R33K OF J34LOUSY 4NY MOR3 PUNG3NTLY 
TG: well yeah thats what i thought too 
TG: and really if we got no other reason keep rolling with it at least theres that one 
TG: to piss him off 

“This guy thinks I’m hitting on you. Fuck him, I’ll keep doing it.”

GC: W3LL WH4T DO YOU TH1NK D4V3 
GC: 4M 1 1N YOUR HUM4N GR1LL? 
TG: im not saying i know for sure but it seems to me like 
TG: my grill is your goddamn prison 
TG: you are practically incarcerated in that fucker 
TG: doing hard time on a bed of charcoal and lighterfluid 
TG: privy to what i flame broil from below 
TG: what im sayin is you got a front row seat to the brown side of my burger 
TG: hows it smell btw 
GC: 1T SM3LLS L1K3 D3L1C1OUS BURN1NG 4N1M4LS 
TG: yeah i thought so 

Is is what Karkat means by Dave hitting on Terezi?

GC: YOU 4ND H1M 4R3 4L1K3 1N SOM3 W4YS 
GC: R34LLY BLUNT 4ND L1T3R4L M1ND3D 
GC: 4ND QU1T3 FR4NKLY JUST 4 L1TTL3 B1T T4CTL3SS WH3N 1T COM3S TO M4N4G1NG TH3 L4D13S! 
GC: H3 4LW4YS H4D TO KNOW 3X4CTLY WH4T TH3 D34L W4S 4ND 3X4CTLY WH4T MY MOT1V4T1ONS W3R3 4ND WH4T 3V3RYTH1NG M34NT 4ND BLUH BLUH BLUH 
GC: 1T T4K3S TH3 FUN OUT OF 3V3RYTH1NG! 
TG: thats pretty much the most insulting thing possible to say im anything like that raving gulf of shit 

I totally forgot about (or hadn’t read?) Terezi comparing Dave to Karkat in some ways. This might be why people ship them. But if you ask me, that’s more reason for them to clash than for them to apparently giggle together.

Speaking of shipping Dave and Karkat, despite the stuff in it that I always talk about how awful it is, I can’t wait until I get to the John/Dave/Karkat conversation way later so I can dissect that whole thing in a way I’m really proud of coming up with. Should I rename this series to Cookie Fonster Dissects Homestuck? Probably not yet since I renamed this post series not long ago I have a feeling it might turn into that when I get to the material leading to Game Over and the controversial paths the story takes following that. 

EDIT (9/23/2019): As I’m going through these posts and reformatting them for WordPress use, I have been constantly resisting the urge to edit them with retrospective thoughts, but this observation is too good to pass up: Dave’s reaction to Terezi comparing him to Karkat is exactly like Dirk’s reaction to god tier Calliope comparing him to Caliborn. Like Strider, like Strider I suppose.

GC: W3LL OK 1M SORT OF 3X4GG3R4T1NG 
GC: BUT R34LLY 
GC: SOM3 S1M1L4R1T13S 4R3 TH3R3 
GC: 1TS JUST YOUR 1SSU3S 4R3 
GC: COOL3R >:] 
GC: L3SS R1D1CULOUS 4ND TR4G1C 
TG: issues 
TG: what are you talking about 
GC: W3LL, FOR 1NST4NC3 
GC: K4RK4T W4S 4LW4YS TORM3NT3D BY H1S P4ST 4ND FUTUR3 S3LV3S 
GC: 4ND TH31R M1ST4K3S 
GC: L1T3R4LLY TORM3NT3D BY TH3M 1N TH3S3 4BSURD SCH1ZOPHR3N1C M3MOS 
GC: 1T W4S 1D34L FU3L FOR H1S S3LF LO4TH1NG 
GC: H3 B3C4M3 OBS3SS3D W1TH H1MS3LF 4S 4N 3LUS1V3 4DV3RS4RY 
GC: R4TH3R TH4N JUST B31NG H1MS3LF 1N TH3 MOM3NT 4ND R34L1Z1NG WHO H3 W4S SUPPOS3D TO B3 
GC: 4ND W4K1NG UP >:[ 

Terezi is getting psychoanalytical up in here.

TG: wow ok what does that have to do with me 
GC: NOTH1NG 1N 4 L1T3R4L S3NS3 
GC: BUT 1 H4V3 OBS3RV3D YOU D4V3 
GC: YOU 4R3 4LW4YS G3TT1NG B41L3D OUT OF J4MS 
GC: 4T F1RST BY YOUR BRO 
GC: 4ND TH3N BY YOUR OWN FUTUR3 S3LV3S! 
GC: 3V3N FUTUR3 D4V3SPR1T3 G3TS 1N ON TH3 4CT OF SHOW1NG UP POOR OLD PR3S3NT D4V3 
GC: WH3N DO3S PR3S3NT D4V3 G3T TO ST3P OUT OF TH3 SH4DOW OF 4LL THOS3 FUTUR3 D4V3S?? 
GC: WH3N DO3S H3 G3T TO B3 TH3 H3RO, TH4T’S WH4T 1 W4NT TO KNOW >:D 
TG: i dunno i guess maybe when i become future me 
GC: H4H4H4H4H4H4 
GC: TH4T 1S 3X4CTLY WH4T K4RK4T US3D TO S4Y 
GC: 1T W4S 4LW4YS TH3 4NSW3R 

Arc stuff I guess. I’ve seen this whole thing of the deal with Dave being described by readers so many times that it really isn’t much new to talk about that stuff so I won’t bother. The stuff I quoted explains much of it anyway.

GC: 4ND ON3 D4Y 
GC: YOU W1LL T4K3 OFF THOS3 DUMB GL4SS3S 4ND L3T M3 G3T 4NOTH3R SN1FF 4T YOUR 3Y3S 
TG: not gonna happen 
GC: COM3 ON! 
GC: 1 ONLY GOT ON3 L1TTL3 WH1FF 4T TH3M 
GC: WH3N YOU W3R3 4 T1NY P1NK W1GGL3R W1TH 4RMS 4ND L3GS S1TT1NG 1N 4 CR4T3R ON TH4T S4D HORS3 YOU 4T3 
GC: TH3Y W3R3 PR3TTY! 
GC: 1T 1S SO S3LF1SH OF YOU TO K33P TH3M COV3R3D UP 
GC: 4ND TH3 L4M3 S3CR3CY SURROUND1NG 1T 1S ONC3 4G41N R3M1ND1NG M3 OF 4 C3RT41N YOU KNOW WHO >:| 

This covering-up-body-mutations parallel between Dave and Karkat is frankly a bit of a stretch. The kids’ eye colors are hardly ever talked about, not even brought up in physical descriptions like “that kid with brown hair and green eyes”, but the trolls’ blood colors are a VERY big deal in their society so of course you’d want to avoid showing a mutation that’ll surely get you killed. Even on Beforus, red blood will get you coddled excessively which is also no good.

Plus, Rose, Roxy, and arguably Dirk also have very odd eye colors. Nobody blinks an eye (heh) about any of them, not even the ones that aren’t behind sunglasses. Additionally, Dave got his sunglasses from his brother, presumably to make him be just like daddy. Nowadays Dave continually wearing these Stiller shades is more of his personal brand than anything else.


Weird creepy random close-up.


TG: hey look at this change of subject going down 
TG: about this comic 
TG: are you saying im about to fall asleep 
GC: Y3S

TG: why 
GC: 1 DO NOT KNOW 
GC: M4YB3 YOU 4R3 R34LLY T1R3D! 
GC: YOU DROP SUDD3NLY 4ND SW1FTLY, L1K3 4N 3X3CUT3D F3LON F4C1NG N4PPY JUST1C3 
TG: i dont feel tired 
TG: could be rose waking me up again 
TG: bonkin me with yarn or some shit 
GC: OH? 
TG: can you see in my dreams 
GC: NO >:[ 
TG: too bad 
TG: last time i promised rose id take off my shades and look in the sky for some reason 
TG: youre gonna miss a hell of a show 
GC: BLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHH >XO 
GC: MOST 4WFUL COOLK1D!!!!! 

Here’s what just hit me: Terezi is fucking brilliant. She’s using her silly comics, which she and Dave both know he can’t say no to, to guide him around. That’s also how she gets Dave to summon Davesprite.

GC: NOW R3L34S3 M1ST3R OR4NG3 CR34MS1CL3S, ST4T 
GC: 4ND H4V3 DR34MS 4S SW33T 4S H3 T4ST3S >:] 
TG: ok see ya

Dreams as sweet as he tastes. That’s such an amazing pun.

DAVESPRITE: oh looks like you got caledfwlch 
DAVESPRITE: you found that pretty fast 

Going through the game way faster/different than usual is what happens when veterans assist you through it. Except the veterans aren’t a bunch of rad 20-year-olds who know all the cheat codes and hacks, they’re a group of gray-skinned douchebags who each have some kind of absurd gimmick.

2019 EDIT (I really need to cool off on those): I am 20 years old now and this line is really weird for me to read. If I wrote this same passage right now I’d probably say “a bunch of rad 25-year-olds”.

DAVE: is that how you pronounce that 
DAVESPRITE: yeah i guess so 
DAVESPRITE: i think its welsh 

This is the weirdness of spoken dialogue shown in Homestuck in action: the joke here is that readers might not know how Caledfwlch is pronounced so Davesprite says it in a way that he thinks is right, but we don’t actually know that pronunciation. I read it as /cal-ed-foolch/.  Let’s Read Homestuck says it as /cal-ed-vulk/ which I think is the closest you can get to the Welsh pronunciation using English sounds.

DAVE: what are welsh things doing in this game 
DAVESPRITE: thats an awesome question 
DAVE: fuck yeah it is 
DAVE: is this thing as pointless as i think it is or do i need it for something 
DAVESPRITE: tactically yeah its a downgrade since its what i used to make caledscratch which is obviously way better 
DAVE: yeah thats what i figured 
DAVESPRITE: caledscratch cycles the sword through its own timeline to points when its broken or nonbroken or old and rusted or recently forged etc 
DAVESPRITE: and your snoop snowcone swords probably even better than that so yeah you got options 

I love these chats about how stupid and absurd this game is. It’s a major theme how people talk about how this whole adventure is the dumbest thing ever, which brings Homestuck’s satirical nature to light. This remains strong in recent updates, with things like Dave talking about Rose’s supposed planet quest.

DAVE: so why wasnt this legendary pos in the sylladex you gave me 
DAVE: did you chuck it after you alchemized it 
DAVE: should i just chuck it too 
DAVESPRITE: it was stolen 
DAVESPRITE: by one of hephaestus’s minions 
DAVE: hes the denizen right 
DAVESPRITE: yeah lord of the forge 
DAVE: isnt that like a greek god 
DAVE: or roman or whatever 
DAVE: what is greco roman shit doing in here you know what never mind 
DAVESPRITE: yeah pretty much 
DAVESPRITE: anyway he gets pissed off you broke it 
DAVESPRITE: and he wants it back 
DAVESPRITE: to do something important with it though not really sure what 
DAVESPRITE: hes a pretty ornery dude 
DAVESPRITE: kept raving about how he was waiting for the forge to come 
DAVESPRITE: which he needs to complete his work 
DAVESPRITE: but in my timeline the forge would never come 
DAVESPRITE: so he was extra pissed off 

This chat about denizen stuff is interesting because it shows denizens being something other than stoic and cryptic. Then again, at this point we’re still pretty new to the concept of denizens, so maybe Hussie decided to fiddle with it a little after coming up with the idea.

DAVESPRITE: anyway that sword 
DAVESPRITE: its important to getting your shit figured out 
DAVESPRITE: you were supposed to break it to get it out of the thing 
DAVESPRITE: like another personal sort of mythological milestone you were supposed to clear 
DAVE: really 
DAVE: there was no other way to get it out 
DAVE: thats kind of retarded 

This is a parallel between Dave and Rose regarding their supposed game roles which I’ve seen people point out. Just like playing the rain, the sword stuff might be a red herring quest. I’m pretty sure it’s deliberately super damn confusing.

DAVESPRITE: ill just sort of 
DAVESPRITE: release myself 
DAVESPRITE: go do my own thing 
DAVESPRITE: after this i dont think youll need me 
DAVESPRITE: seems like youve got the stable time loop thing figured out already 
DAVESPRITE: which means youll be alright 
DAVESPRITE: future yous will get you out of trouble 
DAVESPRITE: if youre gonna live up to the responsibility of eventually becoming them 
DAVESPRITE: and by virtue of loop stability it sort of means you cant technically fuck up anymore 
DAVESPRITE: but dont let that idea go to your head itll mess you up 

This seems to be the stage where players are done with needing sprites to guide them around. Assuming the idea that sprites are meant to eventually die off is true, breaking that idea leads to interesting stuff. On the battleship, Nannasprite and Jaspersprite are complacent with their lives as a grandma and a cat, but Davesprite becomes a tragic figure, feeling himself worthless as not at all the real Dave. That’s why I like the idea of Davepetasprite^2 being a thing, because it brings Davesprite’s arc in a way better direction. Some people resent that Davesprite just suddenly combined with Nepeta rather than working through his issues, but I think it’s actually pretty cool how that happened, with a whole new idea of heroism way beyond regular Dave stuff. All this is coming from someone who’s complained about several of the recent plot developments.

DAVE: where will you go 
DAVESPRITE: dunno 
DAVESPRITE: fly around 
DAVESPRITE: up away to the sun like a fucknig piece of gargbage
DAVESPRITE: see if i can catch up with bro maybe 
DAVESPRITE: elusive bastard 
DAVE: oh yeah 
DAVE: where do you think he is 
DAVE: what happened to him in your timeline 
DAVESPRITE: who knows 
DAVESPRITE: i completely lost track of him 
DAVESPRITE: in that timeline and this one 
DAVESPRITE: the dude is fucking inscrutable we both know that 
DAVE: yeah 
DAVE: ok good luck with that 
DAVESPRITE: thanks man

I like to think that over time, Davesprite gradually grew to respect his bro to some degree rather than Dave who has it in his mind that he was a huge asshole. There isn’t very solid evidence for that, rather just a headcanon I have.


Vriska puts Dave to sleep, Davesprite goes for the badass.


caw caw motherfuckers


See you next time as we meet a brand new character named Jade.


>> Part 33: Cthulhu Acid Trip Dreams