Cookie Fonster’s Homestuck Commentary Part 42: Password Weirdness and Frog Breeding

Introduction

Part 41 | Part 42 | Part 43 >

Act 5 Act 2, Part 15 of 32

Pages 3297-3320 (MSPA: 5197-5220)

Fitting that post number 42 (the answer to the Ultimate Question) is where we finally get an answer to a very fundamental question in Homestuck: how exactly universes are made.

First here is a flash, titled [S] Wake, that I could’ve ended last post with but didn’t. I’m not sure if it’s more thematically appropriate to end a post with the start of Murderstuck or start a post with it. Last post was getting long so I stuck with the latter.

If there’s anything about Homestuck the average person is likely to know, it’s the story behind the song Megalovania (a version of which is used in this flash). There’s really no reason to rehash it all over again, nor is there any reason to point out for the ten millionth time how funny it is that so many people got into Homestuck through the iconic Undertale song.

How do you kick off a dramatic troll-centric flash? By showing the villain killing the two cutest trolls. It’s only their dream selves but still. We knew Derse would get destroyed but showing Jack killing the dream selves of Feferi and Nepeta serves to add impact to this whole scene.

Like I said, we already knew Derse was going to get destroyed, but this scene is still there for a number of reasons. First off, as context for the pinnacle of the flash: Aradia ascending to god tier. Also, since destroying Prospit got its own scene in a flash (the last part of [S] Jade: Enter), it’s only fair that Derse gets a similar scene. 

As I’ve mentioned before, this scene, Aradia’s ascension to god tier, is one of those flash scenes that tends to throw readers off. I’ve already talked about such scenes in depth during my commentary on [S] Jade: Wake up, but it’s relevant to this discussion so I’ll talk about it again. First I’ll quote what I said when I first talked about confusing flash scenes:

This is a noteworthy flaw in Homestuck. Flash animations meant to convey information will often just seem really cryptic to readers, or seem really inexplicable and confusing. When I first watched [S] WV: Ascend, I thought it was meant to show readers that WV and company are the ones behind Sburb. There’s a few flash scenes that throw readers off especially often, like Aradia ascending to god tier or the Green Sun being created rather than destroyed. I think such scenes throw readers off because they will often show something happening, but they don’t put into words the reason why or how it happened.

But there’s a few things that make this scene a special case. I mentioned after the passage I just quoted that flashes are often followed by exposition sequences explaining and/or further exploring what just happened. But this flash doesn’t really have such a sequence as far as I’m aware. I don’t recall a section later in this act where Aradia explains how she became a god tier, so clarification of this seemingly miraculous ascension comes by a lot later than it should, unless I’m somehow mistaken which isn’t out of the question. The only time I can think of when the concept of sacrificial slabs is explained in words is WAY later, though as I said I could be wrong. Dave and Rose’s ascension in Cascade might make things clearer, but that is also a rather throw-offy scene.

Cool detail: the red clock shown to indicate Aradia time-stopped Jack is actually a zodiac sign wheel.
If you look closely you can see the animals and stuff associated with each of the signs.

Confusion aside, this scene is super badass. The first thing Aradia does after being truly alive for the first time in forever is time-stop Bec Noir himself with a big smile on her face. It seems weird for a scene to be both confusing and badass, but really that’s not very unusual. There’s plenty of movies with scenes that don’t really make a lot of sense but are really badass anyway. Of course, whether or not a scene makes sense depends heavily on the viewer. This will sound self-deprecatory, but I often have a harder time than others comprehending scenes in fiction, including some things in Homestuck itself. However, in scenes like this you can’t really blame the reader for not understanding what’s going on.

Up next is Tavros’s ultimate confrontation with Vriska. The scene shown above is another one of those visual callbacks; in this case, to the opening of the swordfight between Dave and his bro. This isn’t the first time a scene with Tavros and Vriska calls back to Dave and Bro; this page calls back to this one, both involving the former having just been beaten up by the latter. Both callbacks are meant to parallel Vriska’s treatment of Tavros with Bro’s treatment of Dave. There’s also scenes with Jake and Dirk that call back to scenes with Dave and his guardian, which demonstrates an even stronger parallel. More on that when I actually get to Act 6. I have to say, I can’t wait to get to Act 6 because I promise you, I’ll have a lot to say about the alpha kids.

Tavros runs up against Vriska with intent to kill her, convinced he has a shot against her. Now that I think of it, with his weapon handy, Tavros could have very well killed Vriska; there’s a good chance she would’ve died a just death given her choice of involving herself in Bec Noir’s creation.

But instead, this happens:

I’m not sure if the silhouettes make this death scene less or more scary.

Vriska either lied about giving Tavros a free shot or changed her mind at the last minute. Both are equally likely. Maybe she offered him a free shot because she knew he couldn’t beat her if he tried, but when she saw him attacking her with his lance, she saw that as a real threat and her troll murder instincts kicked in. 

Vriska smiles a wrathful smile as she lets Tavros’s impaled body fall to the ground. Though later she talks about how awful she feels for killing Tavros, now she hasn’t considered what things will be like now that he is dead. This reminds me of a scene in The Hunger Games where Katniss kills a guy but not until ten pages later does it dawn on her he was the first person she’d get definite credit for killing and what people must think of that. It’s an interesting thought, the idea that killing someone and realizing you killed someone are separate things.

About [S] Wake in general: This flash is sort of a turning point for the comic. Obviously it’s the first page that unarguably counts as part of the section known by fans as Murderstuck. But there’s a lot of other stuff that changes after this flash. Before this flash, John and Jade were followed closely and didn’t know everything, Dave and Rose weren’t followed as closely and did know everything, the trolls mostly dicked around, Aradia was dead, Karkat was grumpy, Vriska was a smug motherfucker. After this flash, John does cool things with his god tier powers, Jade is followed much less closely, Dave and Rose are hardly followed at all for a while, the trolls start killing each other, Aradia is alive, Karkat starts freaking the fuck out, and Vriska becomes significantly more tragic.

The countdown at the top of the picture above is a little confusing: in [S] Wake, we were led to believe that Vriska had her final confrontation with Tavros at 3:14 hours, but the page above suggests he was actually killed a half-hour later, or just spent a really long time falling which doesn’t make much sense. What really happened, as Hussie clarified on his Formspring, is as follows: Vriska woke up from the dream she shared with WV at 3:14 hours, some unseen stuff happened in the next thirty minutes (including the two replying to a memo at 2:58), and the final fight happened at 2:42.

As I said two posts ago, the “DEAD.” sound effect is there to shut people up.

Kanaya views Rose’s blackout scene for the umpteenth time and contacts Jade (who she’s apparently talked to many times) at the point Rose blacks out to try to get an explanation for that. But Jade merely asks her for the password.

GG: I SAID PASSWORD FUCKASS!!!!!
GA: Wow
GG: whoops sorry
GG: ive been having too many password arguments with karkat i guess :p
GA: I Still Dont Understand The Password Thing
GA: Past You Doesnt Care About Passwords What Happened 

Jade talks about having password arguments with Karkat. It’s clear that he finds the password system annoying, which I suppose is because the trolls always do everything the hard way. And the dumb way. I’ve said this before, but I find it seriously amusing how the trolls, despite having been introduced as a bunch of haughty douchebags, are not the least bit above it all.

GA: Why Are You Demanding Passwords From Me And Also Apparently Karkat
GG: to keep the conversations linear!
GG: i gave you a password at the end of our previous conversation
GG: you have to give me that password to start our next conversation
GG: this ensures that past you cant jump ahead into the conversation and mess everything up, like you are trying to do now! 

Infuriating Jade is back in action, kind of! But this time it’s mostly the trolls’ fault for not trolling the kids the sensible way. I think most of the trolls have done something really dumb at some point. Still, though, I’m not totally sure yet what to think of the Jade who started once again succumbing to time loops and stuff. I guess I’ll see what to think when I reread more of Jade.

Upon Jade’s suggestion, Kanaya contacts past Jade, leading to a long expository conversation revealing to us what the fuck is up with frogs.

The panel above demonstrates that Jade is no longer being followed very closely. Her house has been built up offscreen and it hasn’t even been very long since we last followed her. Also, see that dot to the left of the tower? That’s Jade herself, who can fly now using her Iron Man outfit. Welcome Mrs. Harley to the Flying Club.

GA: What Are You Doing
GG: im doing what you told me to do!
GG: im getting dave to set up that expensive equipment
GG: so i can start doing all that witch of spacey stuff you were telling me about
GG: which i appreciate, since my sprite turned out to be sad and useless, and not very wise at all 😦 

You can tell that Jade’s been doing A LOT of stuff offscreen. Even though through this whole act Dave and Rose haven’t been followed very closely, it’s still a weird change to see Jade not being followed very closely either.

GA: I Didnt Mean To Alarm You By Implying You Were Required To Wage A Great Deal Of Personal Procreation Over A Span Of Several Weeks
GG: yeah, whew <_<;
GA: Though It Should Be Clear That Repopulation Is Among Our Duties As Well In The Long Term
GA: And Ive Gathered That The Cloning Apparatus In The Veil Is Probably Meant To Permit An Initial Boost On The World We Select For Settlement
GA: But Beyond That It Is Up To The Descendants To Perpetuate The Race
GA: And Your Species Has Quite An Advantage In This Respect
GG: how so?
GA: Your Procreation May Be Carried Out By Paired Individuals Autonomously
GA: Whereas Ours May Not 
GA: Which Is What Makes My Role Particularly Important
GG: what is your role?
GA: Im The Keeper Of The Matriorb
GA: It Is An Egg That Will Hatch A New Mother Grub
GA: She Alone Will Be Responsible For Bearing Our Young 

I think it would probably be better to use cloning equipment let someone else do the work of raising the young of the newly-created universe than force the players to have babies with each other.

Also relating to this, I’ve noticed how weird it is that the trolls have a definite big deal key to reviving their race (the matriorb), but the humans don’t. But this portion brings up the idea that the humans will merely have babies with each other and that’ll be that, which isn’t exactly an ideal solution. A common idea is that humanity will be restored using cloning equipment and stuff; after all, that’s how our heroes were made. But even that isn’t a definite solid special idea the way the matriorb is.

GG: whoa, cool!
GG: so you are like bugs, like bees or ants or such, but with horns
GA: I Guess So
GA: And You Are Like Erect Livestock
GA: Without The Muscle Definition
GA: Or The Hermaphroditic Physiology For That Matter
GG: 😮
GA: But Milk Producers Nonetheless
GA: That Rare Kind Of Organism To Nurture Hatchless Young Within
GA: Are You Not
GG: errr…….
GG: yes 8|

I like this exchange on human vs. troll biology, even if it’s kind of gross. To humans, trolls are like insects; to trolls, humans are like musclebeasts. As I’ve said before, these heavy biological differences are weird when you consider that trolls dating humans is often not considered creepy at all. Would you hit on a group of aliens when you meet them? Probably not, but let’s face it: bizarre romance, or any humor relating to let’s call it reproduction (as a broad term, not a euphemistic term), is HILARIOUS. It sounds immature but frankly, sexual jokes are among the funniest kinds of jokes.

More about stuff that’s probably kind of disturbing: I’ve said before that we probably are to presume humans and trolls are anatomically similar, but the biological differences do seem pretty fundamental. Maybe humans and trolls converge in anatomy as they get older? Maybe the humanoid model is present by nature in all species that are destined to play Sburb? So many open questions.

Was this one of the things that happened in the four hours between the trolls arriving to the meteor and discovering the kids?

GA: Anyway
GA: I Had Imagined I Would Hatch The New Grub On A Planet In Your Universe
GA: And When That Became Impossible I Quickly Lost Hope
GA: I Assumed It Would Remain Locked In Its Card Forever
GA: Which Could Only Be Opened When The Orb Was Meant To Be Used
GA: But Then I Found Something Quite Unexpected When I Was Exploring This Lab
GA: I Found A Key
GA: It Was Deep In The Meteor
GA: And As I Suspected It Released The Orb
GA: Which Was Really Confusing To Me For A While
GA: Until I Realized What It Meant
GA: Which Is So Obvious Im Amazed I Didnt Think Of It Right Away
GG: what!
GA: It Means I Am Supposed To Use It Now
GA: To Hatch The Grub In The Heart Of This Meteor

Turns out that Kanaya merely fell for a trap when she found the key. The trap was that she wasn’t actually going to hatch it, merely have it destroyed so that a new one will be created when our heroes are actually ready. I think the purpose of the original orb was so that she would already know about it in advance and be motivated to acquire a new one when it was actually the right time to bring back the troll race.

This trap once again reminds me of Kanaya blindly trusting Skaia and distrusting the Horrorterrors while Rose is the other way around, even though both are merely forces of predestination. Kanaya’s fetch modus is also clearly commanded by forces of predestination. The modus was probably presented to her as copyrighted by Skaia or something, I’m not sure. It seems that fetch modi are typically bought from stores and stuff, but the chastity modus seems somewhat different and more tied in with Sburb regarding origin. Then again, Jade’s Pictionary modus also seems to be weakly affiliated with the forces of destiny given that it refused to recognize possessions of hers that were going to serve some function for the exiles. And then there’s Aradia’s fetch modus which is also based on what is destined to happen. Are all fetch modi tied in with predestination? Who even knows?

GA: First Deploy The Pad
GG: yes, dave is doing that at the top of this ridiculous tower
GA: Um
GA: Why All The Way Up There
GG: didnt you say it needed to be in a warm place?
GA: Yes Thats Right
GG: my house is freezing now
GG: it ran on geothermal power before…
GG: and i guess theres no heat anywhere inside this planet
GA: That Will Probably Change If You Light The Forge
GA: But One Thing At A Time I Guess
GG: yes i would like to hear about that later…
GG: but yeah the weather seems just fine out here in the medium! 

I may have mentioned this before, but it’s interesting how apparently rather than being an empty vacuum like regular outer space, the outer space of the incipisphere seems to be a completely human-friendly environment, presumably oxygen-rich and most likely around room temperature.

Dave deploys the breeding device which is surprisingly small.

Bad sense of scale.

GA: I Didnt Mean To Suggest Your Breeding Duties Involved Cloning Humans
GA: Repopulation Is Not Whats Happening Here
GA: Its Not Your Objective As The Witch Of Space
GA: Not Yet Anyway
GG: then what is the objective?
GG: what am i breeding????
GA: Frogs
GG: :O
GA: Sorry I Thought That Was Obvious

Turns out that frogs are what Jade’s dealing with. Kanaya’s statement that she thought this was obvious (one of the comic’s most famous lines) is worth analyzing. She probably thinks it’s obviously frogs because frogs show up everywhere in this world, so it shouldn’t be surprising that frogs are part of the ultimate point of the game. Except it actually is a bit unexpected. Probably because frogs are such an absurd thing to make into a SUPER BIG DEAL.

Better sense of scale.

GA: What Are You Laughing At There
GG: oh
GG: lol
GG: dave just has a lot of funny stuff to say about all this
GA: What Is He Saying
GG: oh you know, a bunch of silly stuff
GG: theres too much to copy/paste!
GA: Hmm
GG: here ill save it all to a file and send it to you
— gardenGnostic [GG] sent grimAuxiliatrix [GA] the file “daveisafunnyguy.txt” —
GA: Okay Im Laughing Pretty Hard At All That
GG: hahaha 

We never get to see the funny things Dave said about all this frog nonsense. I think Hussie said on his Formspring that it’s funnier if we don’t get to see it. Right now I’m imagining if in some TV show, someone shares a funny thing he found with someone else and both share a good laugh but we don’t get to see it. That seems exactly like the kind of thing that could be made into bonus content or something. Maybe as bonus content in the Homestuck books if they go beyond what’s currently been made (Acts 1-3)? Or as part of a Paradox Space comic if the spinoff ever resumes? The text file ConversationWithAVeryStupidGirl.txt had a similar situation, but eventually we did get to see it. But it’s been a long time since this page was posted, and it’s unlikely we’ll ever get to see the text file in comic; if anything, it would be some kind of bonus content.

GG: ok, here is a frog on the screen
GG: on no, is it trapped in ice?
GA: I Would Conjecture That Most Of Them Are
GA: And Will Stay That Way Until The Forge Is Brought To Life
GA: I Think The Event Is Designed To Trigger Drastic Planetary Upheaval Wherever The Forge Is Stationed
GA: It Did On My Planet As Well
GG: was your planet covered in ice too?
GA: No Mostly Water 

This bit implies that when Kanaya’s forge was lit, the oceans in her land boiled away, which sounds a lot more far-fetched than merely melting the snow on Jade’s land. We never got to see what her planet looked like after the oceans boiled away, which is a shame because it probably looked pretty nice. Maybe it had colorful light shows and stuff from the planet’s rays kind of like Roxy’s land?

GG: how can i appearify some frog slime?
GA: You Will Need To Direct The Terminal To Another Frog
GA: And Then You Must Be Sure Later To Interfere With That Frog In Some Way
GA: For Instance By Planning To Venture Out To Capture That Exact Frog As I Suggested Earlier
GA: That Way It Will Be Impossible To Appearify The Frog Before Your Interference Has Taken Place
GA: Only Its Slime Will Arrive
GG: so it is like
GG: a sort of backwards frog breeding
GG: clone first, catch later?
GA: Yes

Unlike other predestination stuff, this stuff Kanaya is explaining to her is really fascinating to think about. Essentially, by thinking “hey I’m going to something with that frog later”, you can make the frog be predestined to go through more stuff and thus be appearified as paradox slime. It’s a topic of debate among the fandom how much free will is given to the characters in Homestuck vs. how much is predestination nonsense. Things being simply meant to happen, as I’ve said since my earliest posts, is a recurring theme in the comic, but the bit quoted above is evidence that characters still do get some amount of free will.

Jade clones her first frog and here’s something I can’t help but wonder about. Don’t these frogs take more time to mature than the kids have left? The frog breeding process normally takes weeks, but the trolls assisting Jade greatly accelerated the process.

Kanaya goes on to explain things about the ultimate frog.

GA: Hes Known As The Speaker Of The Vast Croak
GG: hehehe
GG: CROOOOOOAK
GA: Yes The Croak Really Is Quite Vast And Is Something To Behold
GA: Its The Most Amazing Thing I Have Seen
GG: then the speaker is like a god, but there are a lot of them?
GG: like one for each session, kind of like the kings and queens?
GA: Yes There Will Be One For Every Session Should The Players Be Successful
GA: And Each One Is A Unique Product Of Their Quest
GA: The Kingdoms Are At Odds Over His Creation
GA: Prospit Worships Him Much As The Consorts Do
GA: Derse Reviles Him And Outlaws Frogs Wherever They Can
GA: Even The Iconography
GA: Their Agents Mock His Name With Slurs
GA: Like Speaker Of The Vast Joke
GA: Or Bilious Slick 

Here we get direct explanation of something that was for a long time a mystery but could be easily deduced by now. Now we know why Prospitians love frogs and Dersites hate them.

Here’s another bit that stands out:

GG: what do we do after i make this big god froggy?
GG: does it have something to do with the new universe we create?
GA: Most Certainly
GG: you said he was a genesis frog
GG: does that mean we bring him into the universe and…
GG: he makes new planets or life or such?
GA: No
GA: Youre Not Really Understanding The Magnitude Of His Role
GA: He Is Not Responsible For Just One Aspect Of The Universe You Create
GA: Hes Responsible For All Of Them
GA: Bilious Slick Is Your Universe

I just got this weird sense when you, uh, re-realize something? I’m not totally sure how to put it. When you end up reliving a feeling you’ve already experienced. You start with random ordinary frogs, and breed them until you get a frog that is also a universe. I knew that already, but only through rereading this portion do I realize just how nonsensical that sounds. People who read the comic thoroughly the first time around will no doubt have such an epiphany, with reactions ranging from “oh it all finally makes sense now” to “WHY IS IT ALWAYS FROGS”.

GG: you mean he is LITERALLY a universe? 
GA: Yes Literally 
GA: That Statement Was As Literal As You Can Possibly Make Words Be 
GA: I Know Your Species Is Frequently Insincere For A Variety Of Reasons 
GG: but your species is too! 
GG: especially karkat, he is incredibly sarcastic 
GA: Thats True But When We Do It Its Usually Just Because We Are Trying To Be Jerks 
GA: Rather Than By Way Of A Mild Manner Perpetually Dispatching Little Puzzles Of Rhetoric Without Apparent Purpose 

I have to agree with Jade here. Kanaya’s whole notion of “Human Sarcasm” doesn’t exactly make sense.

GG: but i dont do that! 
GG: i try to say what i mean as much as i can 
GA: Yeah I Think Ive Been Discerning That 
GA: Its A Nice Change Of Pace 
GG: from what? 
GA: Oh Its Not Important 
GG: haha, you mean from rose? 
GA: Well 
GA: Not That It Wasnt An Enjoyable Exercise In Xenocultural Inculcation 
GG: yeah, rose and dave are like that all the time! 
GG: they inculcate that stuff like crazy 
GG: so you have been talking to her a lot i guess? 
GA: Sort Of 
GG: are you best friends now?? 

Later they will be more than that, but Jade still doesn’t know that. This reminds me of how as of the Omegapause Jade is still incredibly out of the loop on, well, pretty much everything. She doesn’t know at all what her friends are up to, while almost every other character gathered in the B2 session does. As I’ve said before, I’m really looking forward to hearing more from her. There will be a lot of catching up to do. I can only imagine John telling her something like, “i think dave is gay now. but, uh… only half gay? i’m not sure. he said a lot of stuff i didn’t really understand.”

GA: I Guess As Mutually Friendly As The Time Has Permitted Two People To Be 
GA: I Wont Be Speaking To Her Anymore Though 
GG: why? 
GG: oh yeah, because you said she is blacked out? 
GG: what the heck does that mean! 
GA: It Just Means In A Few Moments From Your Perspective I Wont Be Able To See Her Through My Viewport Or Talk To Her 
GA: I Dont Know Why Exactly But Its Not That Hard To Guess 
GA: She Has Been Relying On The Powers And Counsel Of Dark Gods And Other Sources Of Ambiguous Intent 
GA: And She Has Consequently Devised A Plan Which Sounds Very Dangerous To Me 

Kanaya says it’s not hard to guess why Rose blacked out. If my reading of liveblogs is anything to go by, then Rose blacking out due to the Horrorterrors possessing her is a rather easy-to-guess outcome. Many things in the comic were deliberately easy to guess; some of them perhaps too easy, with obvious hints that are probably just to throw readers a bone.

GA: You Are More Sensible 
GA: Its Probably The Influence Skaia Has Had On You 
GA: Having Spent Much Of Your Life Awake On Prospit 
GA: Like Me 
GG: you did??????? 
GA: If Were Alike In Some Ways Maybe Its Because Of This 
GG: yeah! 😀 
GA: I Woke Up A Long Time Ago 
GA: I Had Trouble Sleeping When I Was Young 
GA: The Sunlight Was Unnaturally Invigorating To Me I Guess 
GA: My Lusus Could Do Nothing To Help 
GA: And When I Was Supposed To Be In My Cocoon I Would Often Wander Out To The Desert 

This whole pesterlog has brought to light parallels between Kanaya and Jade, now including how they both dreamt on Prospit since youth. Here’s a somewhat more obscure connection: in her conversation with Tavros a while back, Jade talked about how she had trouble sleeping for a while because she thought the blue doll killed her grandpa. Hussie talked about that connection on his Formspring when someone asked him about Jade’s dream self’s awakening, saying you can guess what happened through clues like this and parallels with Kanaya: by connecting the dots, you can deduce that someone must’ve put Jade to sleep after her phase of trouble sleeping, likely Vriska or Bec.

GA: Where One Day I Was Visited By A Stranger Who Dressed And Spoke In White 
GA: He Put Me To Sleep And I Awoke On Prospit 
GA: Where I Have Dreamed Ever Since 

1. How does Kanaya know Doc Scratch spoke in white when she talked to him in person? I guess “spoke in white” is just there to make it obvious she’s talking about Scratch.

2. Another parallel: Jade and Kanaya both have connections to their planet’s first guardians.

GA: He Said He Was My Guardian
GA: And Though He Visited Rarely I Did Regard Him As That 

I wonder what Doc Scratch did when he visited Kanaya those other times? Probably made sure her dreams were as intended, or perhaps other predestined stuff.

GA: Then Later He Stopped Coming 
GA: In Time I Began To Believe He Was A Figment Of My Mind 
GA: Like An Imaginary Friend To Give Me Reassurance When I Needed It 
GA: But Then While Playing Our Game I Learned He Was Real 
GA: He Had Spoken To Others From Our Party 
GA: And Had Been Manipulating Us All To Advance His Schemes 

It’s an interesting thought, Kanaya growing to think Doc Scratch was only the product of her imagination. Was it because he was really mystical or what?

GA: It Must Be A Certain Madness Im Afflicted By 
GA: To Orbit Those More Reckless And Dangerous Than I And More Daring For It 
GA: I Guess I Want To Help Them But They Never Can Be Helped It Seems 
GG: well, it sounds like helping people is something that is in your nature 
GG: i can understand that 
GG: are you saying rose is reckless and dangerous? 
GA: Yes Definitely 
GA: We Have Our Share Of Dangerous Players Who Seem To Do Nothing But Cause Problems 
GA: I Believe She Is Yours 

Kanaya is alluding to her unhealthy past relationship with Vriska here, and how it’s somewhat similar to her interactions with Rose. Now that I think of it, Kanaya’s relations with the light players are similar in some ways, but have gone in vastly different directions. Her relationship with Vriska soon fell apart, but her relationship with Rose became tighter and tighter over time, due to what I see as Rose herself developing romantic feelings, eventually becoming too tight of a relationship. With all these complexities in mind, it’s weird thinking of how post-retcon Kanaya and Rose are portrayed as essentially the ideal romantic relationship; it’s strangely almost a little disappointing when you think about it. I’ll get into that later though. I will say that it would be pretty worthwhile to see their pre-retcon versions have some sort of ultimate reconciliation.

GA: Ill Message You Again In Your Future 
GA: And You May Reply If You Have Cause To 
GG: if i have cause to? 
GG: oh!!! 
GG: that reminds me, i was thinking of implementing a system to keep some of these confusing conversations simple and linear 
GA: Does It By Any Chance Have To Do With Passwords 
GG: yeah! i guess someone told you? 
GA: Yes You 
GA: You Delivered News Of The System By Demanding A Password From Me 

I guess I was wrong in saying that Jade’s password system was an entirely self-originating idea. Turns out she did think of the idea herself, despite her whole discussion of how annoying self-originating ideas are which I guess confused me a little. Two idea points for Jade (Jadesprite and the passwords), fuck knows how many idea points for stable time loop shit (too much stuff to list).

GG: aaaaa you see?????? 
GG: you nearly just gave me the idea for the plan in the first place paradoxically from my own future self!!! 
GG: i just find that kind of thing annoying for some reason, it doesnt feel right… 
GG: i would rather ideas came from the place they actually came from 

This is the discussion of how annoying these paradox loops are that I just referenced. I’ve said this before, but I love how everyone in the comic is well-aware that they pretty much live in bullshit world.

Jade gives Kanaya the password to follow up the conversation (CROOOOOOOOOOOAK) and I’ll stop here because this post is really getting pretty long. It’s only half as many pages as I typically cover in my posts, but it actually is a pretty decent stopping point because a big pesterlog just ended and up next is another walkaround game and more murder.

See you next time as I go through, well, another walkaround game and more murder.

>> Part 43: The Evil Juggalo Nightmare

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