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Act 5 Act 2, Part 24 of 32
Pages 3695-3716 (MSPA: 5595-5616)
Before we begin, here’s a fact that probably no one who isn’t me cares about: when moving these blog posts to WordPress in 2019, I edited this post far more heavily than I did prior posts, some edits regarding the painfully basic John/Rose ship, and others just smoothing out faltering wording (which there’s plenty of up until about post 70-some). I’m not sure why I went so much heavier editing this post than any before, but looking back, most of the edits are just clearer wording, so I’m leaving them as is while I go through these posts in order in 2021 after having finished writing (but not yet publishing) the final post.
It’s time for [S] Seer: Descend, a walkaround game that tops all others in chilling mood and rivals Alterniabound in scale while completely dominating it in plot relevance. Like some others, it opens with a flash sequence with, as the title suggests, Rose descending into the castle. I can’t help but notice the giant black squidmonster aura surrounding her, which just utterly dwarfs anything she did before going dark, and that includes glowing three different colors to my recollection.
Another part of the flash opening sequence that is pretty much impossible to screenshot: we very briefly glimpse both the green sun and a color-inverted pink sun. I’ve heard of theories that there’s a pink sun to complement the green sun, just like Alternia’s green and pink moons, though those are dismissed by many as a ridiculous crack theory that makes no sense. Only through catching the glimpse after rewatching that sequence did I notice that glimpsed pink sun. It’s really probably just a color-inverted green sun though.
The actual walkaround game starts with our first full view of Dad and Mom’s bodies. Previously it was a tiny relief that we only saw their legs, but now with the grimdark stuff it only makes sense to have their bodies in full view.
As you walk down the stairs and through the castle, you’ll see a lot of dead Prospitians and Dersites; the first one is pictured above. Showing all those casualties once more, even though we already know about them, is an excellent way to add to the darkness of this game.
As you go further, there’s a bookshelf with some interesting bits when you examine it:
- It’s shown that Prospitians tend to write what they see in the clouds, including a horror story about Jack Noir that they say is fiction only to console children. This is weird given that the clouds seem to be selective in what they share with people. As the narration notes, it’s pretty sad how the culture basically relies on futility.
- Some books, like a guide to soldier combat based on chess rules that explains why they were so easy for Jack to kill, are darkly humorous. I’ve never noticed just how much black comedy there is through Homestuck; even a walkaround about a girl gone dark in search for her mother’s killer isn’t exempt from that rule.
- One book is erotic fanfiction about the queen in first person that the narration remarks doesn’t belong in this library, or anywhere for that matter. It directly quotes part of Mindfang’s journal, making it one of the most unusual callbacks in the whole story.
Another thing: adding to the dark mood of this minigame, the chests contain things like Dad’s hat and Mom’s scarf.
Some Prospitians and Dersites are alive, and when you talk to them, there’s narration telling what they’re saying (things like “this guy was at first excited to see you”). I guess this is in line with the unwritten rule of no direct carapacian dialogue. Once again that rule makes no sense but is admirably followed to death.
When you follow Jack’s blood trail and find him, he promptly teleports away. One hell of a jump scare alright.
After a series of curtains symbolizing the acts, you find John, and I guess that’s time to quote some stuff he and Rose say.
JOHN: hi rose! wow, i did not expect to find you here!
ROSE: Nyurb gu’ilg.
JOHN: heh… what?
JOHN: also, why are you all gray like that? you look weird.
This is the first time two of the four main characters converse in person, but one of them is incomprehensible and thus it’s hard for the interactions to amount to much.
ROSE: G’hroog fib’th mur brup brup.
ROSE: G’HROOG FIB’TH MUR BRUP BRUP!
JOHN: rose, i can’t understand a word you are saying. it is a lot sillyspeak and gobbledygook.
JOHN: wait, i know what’s going on here. it finally happened! you have gone grimdark!!!
JOHN: i told you rose. i warned you about… what did you call them? the broodfester throes?
This guy, I swear. Only John can make his friend going dark into a lighthearted matter.
JOHN: it’s ok rose, don’t worry. we will find a cure for your stubborn throes.
JOHN: but i’m still trying to find our parents! i thought my dad might have come to this castle to check out that huge black rain cloud.
JOHN: did you see the cloud, rose? it’s pretty awesome.
ROSE: Fnlth gohluyng j’rg hothaht!
JOHN: what? you sound kind of upset. what is it, rose?
ROSE: Jgngn, fnlth gohluyng j’rg HOTHAHT!
JOHN: wait, are you talking about our parents?
JOHN: oh man… you mean, they’re here?!
ROSE: Shgvb throl. Goors fn’nnyuld hothahty’j otot!
JOHN: are you saying they are in trouble??
JOHN: oh no! rose, we have to go help them!
You can’t really blame John for not putting two and two together and realizing their parents are dead. Just as Rose said earlier that she never thought that her mother would die, John treated the idea of finding his father as a video game quest that would end in a successful heartfelt reunion. So while it’s easy for him to fathom the idea of saving his dad (and Rose’s mom) from trouble, the idea of them dying is just way too tragic to happen in both John’s mind and Rose’s.
ROSE: MMPH PHLTHMMPHMPHMF RRMPHPMRPH.
JOHN: yes, i am frustrated too. but there is no time for such lamentations!
JOHN: do you think you can find them again?
JOHN: great! i can’t wait to see my dad. it feels like it’s been forever since i saw him.
JOHN: please lead the way, rose!
Oh my god. Why, WHY, does this story have to shove dramatic irony in our faces like this??? John smiling as he says all this makes the mood and the frustration of the reader even worse.
When you examine the statue of the king and queen, the narration says, “They make such a cute couple. The king and queen are pretty nice too. Heheheh.” This, and some other parts of the walkaround, is pretty heavily teasing John and Rose as a romantic pairing, which is funny because the first male and first female character getting together is the absolute most boring possible choice.
Oh god dammit why does the story have to be so absurdly cruel? Rose can’t just tell John that their parents are dead, for obvious reasons, so I guess she has to show him firsthand?
There’s more blood trail now as you return to where you started and the group of surviving Prospitians and Dersites are all dead. I completely forgot this happened so I really got a bit of a jumpscare there.
JOHN: oh no! rose, what happened in here?
ROSE: Yyjyrn yulk frobithh.
JOHN: was it jack? are you saying it was jack, rose?
ROSE: FRU’FRNUHUH JGOG HHGH.
JOHN: what’s that, rose? are you getting aggravated that i am talking to you kind of like you are a dog?
This is the dialogue that accompanies the discovery that all those people are dead. The “talking to you like a dog” part is even more dark humor, if you can consider regular humor in the proximity of murder to be dark humor.
I just love the symbolism in how the aspect banners were all destroyed except for Jade’s. It’s like Jack is constantly chanting “KILL ALL LIVING BEINGS” and whispering “except Jade” every time. Except, uh, he’s loudly and blatantly whispering it?
JOHN: by the way, did you know that karkat thinks we are supposed to get married?
Why would John bring up the prospect of marrying Rose now of all times?! This shows how much trust he puts into what the trolls tell him even if they have no idea what they’re talking about, which is a strange aspect of his character as many have noted. It’s especially endearing how wholeheartedly he trusts Karkat.
ROSE: Gorthytch svulk borbly’ahth?
JOHN: wait! i hope that didn’t come off as a proposal or anything!
JOHN: sorry, i’m just making conversation.
JOHN: i guess i am a little nervous…
JOHN: because technically, this is the first time we have ever met, and also, you are talking like an eldritch monster, so i’m kind of babbling.
JOHN: we don’t actually have get married though. i mean, not if you don’t want to.
JOHN: heheh. ok, i’ll shut up now.
If John wasn’t so John, he may be read as having legitimate interest in the prospect of marrying Rose. I suspect that this may be because John at this point is completely braindead when it comes to romance—which I relate to quite strongly, as someone who has never been in a relationship with anyone*—so when someone tells him who he is supposed to marry, he is kind of an idiot about it.
* John’s way of thinking in general is very easy for me to relate to.
Also, I wonder if Karkat saying he should marry her is what he pestered Rose about a little earlier.
After you go once more up the stairs, the walkaround game ends and is followed by a flash that is most often referred to, amusingly enough, as “the page after Seer: Descend” because it doesn’t have an actual name; a bit weird because John dies for the second time in it. A decent name for this flash may be “[S] John and Rose: STRIFE!” but that would be too much of a spoiler to put immediately after the walkaround; you’d probably need an intermediate page between those two for the flash name to work without spoiling anything.
Note about that flash: The anticlimactic start of the John and Rose vs. Jack battle is given music, but the long fight itself isn’t (though Hussie considered doing so). I’ll say more about that when I get to that part early in the Doc Scratch intermission.
And there it is. John finds out his dad is dead in the worst way imaginable: finding him in the hopes of a reunion only to see his corpse.
In retrospect, although this round of strife is immediately cut short as we will see, in the Doc Scratch intermission it kicks into high gear, meaning that it can still be regarded as round 1 of fighting despite the anticlimax.
John, Rose, and Jack are posed for an epic battle when the first thing that happens is this:
And here’s John’s second death, accompanied by the music cutting off. I find it a little interesting how music suddenly stopping and going silent serves to accompany a shocking part.
It’s quite the twist to see John get killed right when the battle starts. That’s Bec Noir in action: he doesn’t even kill people in fights, rather appears, kills someone, and moves on. I think all of his kills so far after becoming a dog are like that, so it wouldn’t have been a surprise that the same happens to John (again) if this flash wasn’t purported to be a prolonged fight. I think Rose is the first person Bec Noir kills after a decent fight, definitely demonstrating her strength. Bro doesn’t count because right after Jack became a dog he was killed.
And there John is, dead on the ground (again). At this point readers may consider what Doc Scratch said about god tier mortality; the death must be heroic or just for it to be permanent. Even if it wasn’t obvious that he can’t just be dead forever, if you consider the principles of god tier mortality, John’s death is safely neither heroic nor just. But regardless, a character dying is still a shock.
And Rose’s fury kicks into high gear.* She and Jack prepare for a duel and the flash ends there. A bit of an odd stopping point given that the flash uses part of a song that in its entirety is a badass Rose strife theme, but it makes for a decent cliffhanger regardless.
* Fury, not furry. Jack’s furry kicked into high gear when Jade entered the game.
For some reason seeing the guardians’ bodies in 8-bit style is no less upsetting than the usual style, perhaps more so given that the adventure they’re in is still a video game and the art style reminds us of that.
This time around, sadness is followed by more sadness, rather than humor as the comic loves to do, tying in to the principle of OH GOD THIS IS SUCH A CRUEL STORY.
TG: oh my fucking god
GC: WH4T >:?
TG: what do you mean what
TG: we just got done talking and agreed it would be awesome if you didnt bother me for a while
TG: you know like while i guess i grieved over this brutally murdered rad family member or something
GC: TH4TS R1GHT
GC: 1 FORGOT!
TG: it was five seconds ago
GC: 1 TH1NK TH4T W4S HOURS 4GO FOR M3
GC: 1 4M 4 L1TTL3 FOGGY ON 4LL OUR CHRONOLOG1ST1C4L SH3N4N1G4NS 4T TH1S PO1NT…
GC: TH3R3 H4S B33N SO MUCH CR4ZY STUFF GO1NG ON H3R3 1 H4V3 LOST TR4CK!
TG: so youre officially going nonlinear with me then
TG: were just forfeiting all rhyme or reason to this unmitigated clusterfuck is that it
GC: D4V3, YOUR 3NT1R3 3X1ST3NC3 1S NONL1N34R
GC: DONT B3 SO M3LODR4M4T1C
What the hell Terezi. Does she really have no concern for this guy being left alone for a bit? Or is she really just kind of forgetful? Who even knows.
TG: whoops ok in the future ill try not to pitch any sort of dramatics while brooding over the cadavers of slaughtered loved ones
GC: D1D YOU LOV3 H1M D4V3?
Dave is obviously having a bit of a hard time acting cool.
GC: BUT H3 W4S YOUR STR4NG3 HUM4N M4N-LUSUS
GC: WHO T4UGHT YOU TO L1K3 COOL TH1NGS, L1K3 SWORDS 4ND PUPP3TS 4ND MOV1NG R34LLY F4ST!
GC: HOW COULD YOU NOT???
TG: puppets arent cool theyre shitty small fake people who haunt your dreams and grin like permanent assholes
Here’s a small step in character development for Dave; while he still has troubles with acting like an unfazed hard dude, he no longer bothers with pretending to think puppets are cool.
TG: i was making a joke about being all broken up about it
TG: a guy can be sad and make jokes at the same time
This reminds me of the black comedy throughout the comic; this line can almost be taken as saying that a story can be sad while still having jokes in it.
GC: YOU 4R3 S4D, BUT NOT BROK3N UP 4BOUT 1T?
GC: 1 DONT UND3RST4ND
GC: BUT YOU S41D YOU W3R3 GR13V1NG!
TG: i said we agreed youd leave me alone to grieve
TG: didnt say whether i actually would or actually am
GC: W3LL, 4R3 YOU?
TG: i am grieving to the max like a widow on dead husband island
TG: behind these chill as fuck shades my face is having this crazy attack of the sads
TG: my rue is fucking bananas cant you tell
GC: 4RGH NO, 1 C4NT!
GC: YOU DONT SOUND S1NC3R3, BUT 1TS SO H4RD TO T3LL WH4T L4Y3R OF 1RONY R3MOV3D FROM R34L1TY YOUR FL1PP4NT R3M4RKS 4R3 SUPPOS3D TO B3
GC: 1 4M B3TT1NG YOU R34LLY 4R3 S4D NO M4TT3R HOW H1L4R1OUS 4ND 4LOOF YOU TH1NK YOUR3 B31NG
Here is Dave trying to juggle three projected reactions to his bro’s death at once: legitimate sadness, apathy, and dislike of him. He’s letting feelings of sadness slip, simultaneously making sarcastic remarks about sadness and sad remarks about sarcasm.
GC: 1 H4V3 LOTS OF MY OWN PROBL3MS H3R3, 4ND TH3Y 4R3 B1G, B1G PROBL3MS
GC: SO WHY DONT YOU JUST T3LL M3 WH4T YOU 4R3 TH1NK1NG FOR ONC3?
TG: its pretty simple
TG: im just thinkin about how im gonna take this sword
GC: 1 N3V3R R34LLY GOT WHY YOU WOULDNT JUST PULL 1T OUT
TG: filthiest thing you ever said
GC: HUH >:?
TG: forget it
TG: pulling swords out of things isnt how i roll
TG: im not john remember
GC: 1 4M NOT FOLLOW1NG
TG: im not a hero
TG: my bro was
TG: john is
TG: im not
GC: Y3S YOU 4R3!
GC: Y3S, W3 4LL 4R3
GC: 1 4M TH3 H3RO OF M1ND
GC: YOU 4R3 TH3 H3RO OF T1M3
GC: TH4T 1S WHO W3 W3R3 CR34T3D TO B3
TG: fine its a title we inherit as phlegm babies or whatever but what have i done to earn it
TG: pretty much nothing but horsing around through time and swindling retarded alligators out of their life savings
So now I guess Dave is being more up front about not feeling like a hero? Even if he is being hard on himself, he has a point when he says how little he has done. I think he feels like being a hero is a really cheesy concept to him when he sees the accomplishments of those he regards as heroes. Come to think of it, later on as Act 5 nears its end, he does a larger amount of actions that may count as heroism. The continuation of his arc in Act 6 is a whole different matter entirely.
Callback to Kanaya running, I believe.
Dave tries to break the sword but this happens:
I think Dave failing to break Bro’s sword is symbolism that he still can’t beat him in power, or the idea of Dave thinking he can’t measure up to Bro in general.
GC: D4V3 G3T UP
TG: no fuck that
TG: im a lie my ass right down here for a while looking slightly less cool than i make myself out to be ordinarily
GC: YOU MUST ST4ND T4LL, ONLY 4 TRU3 H3RO COULD PULL OFF SUCH 4N 4CROB4T1C FUCK1NG P1ROU3TT3 OFF OF TH4T H4NDL3 >:]
TG: that is basically what i just did isnt it
TG: thats what im doing here im making a point of makin every little thing take place what was once mentioned in passing no matter how seemingly trivial or pointless
TG: thats how all the best adventures get strung together
I think this is once again Hussie speaking through Dave, in this case about the principle of callbacks. Dave has always been something of an author avatar for Hussie, especially regarding sense of humor, though that role is later taken by Dirk. However, much later Hussie once again uses Dave as a way to talk about his questionable sense of humor, saying that in his opinion it really is funny at times to joke about homosexuality while simultaneously trying to retroactively justify some of those jokes as repressive stuff?? I don’t even know.
TG: you havent heard me bleat like a goat for ironically humorous purposes yet have you
GC: NO!!! >:o
TG: that was something that was mentioned at some point by someone i forget when or why
TG: i bet you are on goddamn pins and needles waiting for that arent you
GC: 4R3 YOU 4BOUT TO BL34T L1K3 4N 34RTH GO4T, D4V3?
TG: fuck that
Sadly, Dave never bleated like a goat. Well, he might do so in the epilogue; come to think of it, I hope that ends up happening. Instead, the prophecy of bleating like a goat was fulfilled by Dirk’s brobot, matching with the principles of Dave’s arc. Still, even though it’s a very trivial matter, Dave himself should bleat like a goat at some point.
GC: R3M3MB3R, TH1S CONV3RS4T1ON 1S K1ND OF NOT SUPPOS3D TO B3 4BOUT YOU, 1 KNOW TH3 1D34 1S UNPR3C3D3NT3D
TG: thats practically unthinkable
GC: 1 KNOW >:p
TG: but i mean ok we can talk about your troll problem but this is pretty important here
TG: the god tier thing and whether i can actually do it or not
TG: it might be kind of hard to tell on account of me chilling face down on the pavement and also because downplaying feelings is the chief rule of cool but im pretty pissed about this
TG: which is weird
GC: 1TS W31RD TO F33L M4D?
GC: 4R3 YOU TOO COOL FOR TH4T TOO??
TG: no its not weird to be mad its just weird it feels like im the only one who is
TG: and the only one even contemplating taking jack on
TG: even among your group of irate gnashing shitheads
From what we can tell, Dave just got done saying he isn’t a hero, but now he’s thinking of taking on Jack which feels like a very heroic thing to do. It turns out that he’s getting exile commanded into thinking weird things but for now it seems like we’re seeing a sudden shift in Dave’s mood.
Also, he feels like he’s the only one who’s thinking of that which is not true. I guess hat’s typical “teenagers thinking they’re the only one when they aren’t” stuff?
TG: johns too nice to get mad
TG: rose spends all her time calculating
TG: too focused on machiavellian ploys of sabotage to try anything drastic
TG: jade is
TG: i dont even know
TG: probably more a liability if she got it in her head to take him down
TG: if anything id bet she just needs protection
More dramatic irony. Rose recently decided to try something very drastic, John was prepared to fight Jack before getting killed, and Jade is… I don’t even know. Does Dave know at this point that Jack is unable to kill her?
GC: WH4T 4R3 YOU S4Y1NG H3R3 D4V3, 1N TH1S CONV3RS4T1ON TH4T 1S ST1LL B31NG 4BOUT YOU
TG: im just wondering
TG: when does someone actually step up
TG: jacks got shit to pay for
GC: 1F TH4T 1S HOW YOU F33L
GC: TH3N 1 TH1NK OUR TWO PROBL3MS 4R3 NOT R34LLY D1FF3R3NT
GC: W3 4R3 BOTH PR3S3NTLY CONC3RN3D W1TH JUST1C3
TG: yeah i guess
TG: i guess it has been on my mind
TG: maybe i am supposed to be a hero and rise to the occasion because there seems to be this little persistent voice in my head nagging me about it
TG: insisting someones gotta pay
TG: and its hard for me to disagree
GC: TH3N 1T COULD M34N ON3 OF TWO TH1NGS
GC: OR BOTH OF TH3 TWO TH1NGS, L1K3 1T D1D FOR M3 >:]
TG: what things
GC: 1T COULD M34N TH4T TH3 4G3NT PR3S3NTLY 1NFLU3NC1NG YOU 1S…
GC: 4 CONSC13NC3
GC: 4N 3X1L3
There is approximately a 70% chance that readers getting to this point completely forgot how each Sburb player is supposed to have a designated exile. As I said months ago, the exile/kid pattern is one of the strangest patterns in the comic, done very out of order and toyed with more heavily than usual.
Tee-hee, you aren’t going to see Dave’s beautiful face without shades.
Except as a close-up. I like to think Dave’s face without sunglasses is ridiculously handsome, mostly because it’s funny.
Also, there’s another thing I hope we see in the epilogue.
TG: im pretty sure i dont even have an exile
TG: ive never heard any voices or anything
TG: anyway you dont need a voice in your head to tell you this shit is
TG: just like
TG: so completely illegal
TG: why did i just say that stupid thing i said
And the sadness of this scene is ruined by AR making Dave say completely stupid things. Dave doesn’t recognize it as an exile because he isn’t a seer like Rose or Terezi.
GC: D4V3 1 D1D NOT R34L1Z3 YOU H4D SUCH 4 P4SS1ON FOR L4W 3NFORC3M3NT
GC: 1 MUST S4Y TH1S SHOCK1NG D3V3LOPM3NT 1S COM1NG D4NG3ROUSLY CLOS3 TO G1V1NG M3 4 C4S3 OF TH3 V4PORS >:O
I kind of wish Dave’s brain was permanently altered to make him say weird stuff about justice and crimes. Then again that would kind of turn him into more of a gag character than he should be. Such a change might be more fit for one of the less important trolls. Imagine what a justice-obsessed Equius would be like.
TG: are you taking notes on this important principle?? jesus get a fucking pen
TG: or some chalk or whatever
GC: 1 TH1NK 1 4M FOLLOW1NG
GC: YOU 4R3 GO1NG TO F1ND J4CK, 4ND PUT H1M 1N J41L?
GC: D4V3 1 KNOW YOU 4R3 L1K3LY D1SCOMBOBUL4T3D W1TH GR13F OV3R YOUR F4LL3N M4NBRO LUSUS, BUT TH4T 1S 3XTR3M3LY S1LLY 4ND DO3SNT M4K3 4NY S3NS3
TG: i know it doesnt
TG: im just saying
TG: what am i even saying here
Dave is calling back to something he said way back in Act 1 (are you taking notes on how to be cool?? jesus get a fucking pen), which makes for an amusing case of mixing AR’s thoughts with Dave’s thoughts.
God dammit, why do funny ridiculous exile commands have to be printed over a tragic corpse?
GC: 1M ST1LL NOT SUR3
GC: YOUR3 T4LK1NG 4BOUT THROW1NG J4CK 1N TH3 SL4MM3R 4ND R4MBL1NG 4BOUT JUST1C3 4ND T3LL1NG M3 TO G3T P3NS 4ND SUCH
GC: NOT TH4T 1 4M COMPL41N1NG
TG: ok forget the slammer stuff that was stupid
TG: it is about justice though
TG: and since no one else seems to give a shit about that it apparently falls in my jurisdiction now
TG: not just going after jack
TG: but all the mutinous agents responsible for crimes
TG: holy shit why do i care about THAT suddenly
TG: anyway thats more shit that popped into my head just now
I suspect that Hussie completely forgot that Dave was supposed to have an exile like the other kids and when the idea returned to his head, he decided to have some fun with the concept of exiles.
So the inside of this command station has a more green color scheme than the other ones?
These pictures above show us how AR got into the Bec head exile base. While it’s nice getting a quick explanation of that, I should note that AR seems to break the pattern of exiles stumbling upon their command stations after walking for hundreds of years.
TG: i need to shut up now
TG: im sounding like an idiot and my head is starting to hurt
TG: why dont we talk about your thing now
TG: what justice thing do you have to do
GC: YOU M34N 1TS 4CTU4LLY MY TURN TO T4LK?
GC: BUT 1 W4S B3G1NN1NG TO FORG3T MY PROBL3M L1ST3N1NG TO YOUR H1GHLY 3NJOY4BL3 B3FUDDL3M3NT!
TG: just please tell me your justice problem and make me stop saying stuff
GC: W41T!!!!!! >:[
TG: no i mean
TG: god damn it im not leaving
TG: farewell is not even a thing i would ever say jesus what am i a victorian poet
TG: can you show me a little respect and assume any time i say something stupid it just means im temporarily being inexplicably retarded
TG: thats what a real friend would do
Dave still thinks that his saying stupid things is just inexplicable nonsense. It’s weird how he finds that easier to believe than someone else commanding him to do stuff; he denied that it was an exile commanding him.
GC: OK D4V3, 1 W1LL SHOW SOM3 S3NS1T1V1TY 4ND C4ST SUSP1C1ON ON TH3 1NT3LL3CTU4L M3R1T OF 3V3RYTH1NG YOU H4V3 3V3R S41D
TG: thank you
GC: 1 W1LL FURTH3R D3MONSTR4T3 MY FR13NDSH1P BY DOM1N4T1NG TH3 R3ST OF TH1S CONV3RS4T1ON W1TH L3NGTHY 4CCOUNTS OF MY 3MOT1ON4L TR1BUL4T1ONS, L34V1NG NO SP4C3 FOR YOU TO SUBM1T 4NY 4MUS1NG OUTBURSTS
TG: that sounds awesome
GC: QU13T!!! >:O
Throughout this next section of the conversation, Terezi keeps telling Dave to be quiet, wanting to make this a monologue. It seems like she sees Dave as someone she can open up to about her problems, just as Vriska does with John.
GC: YOU S33, OUR 41MS 4R3 NOT TH4T D1SS1M1L4R
GC: OUR PURSU1TS OF JUST1C3 1 M34N
GC: BUT YOURS 1S MOT1V4T3D BY 4NG3R 1N TH3 H34T OF TH3 MOM3NT
GC: WH1CH 1S BL1ND1NG YOU TO TH3 CONS3QU3NC3S OF 4TT3MPT1NG SOM3TH1NG V3RY FOOL1SH
GC: YOU 4R3 F4R TOO COOL TO SUCCUMB TO 4NYTH1NG L1K3 TH4T
GC: WH1CH 1S WHY YOU W1LL COM3 TO YOUR S3NS3S SHORTLY >:]
GC: MY S1TU4T1ON 1S 4 L1TTL3 MOR3 COMPL1C4T3D
GC: 1TS L3SS P3RSON4L
Some conversations in Homestuck are about characters talking about things they have in common. For instance, earlier Vriska and John talked about how they both learned a lot from their ancestors. But in this case, Terezi is merely led to believe that she has similar “bringing an enemy to justice” motivations to Dave.
GC: D4V3 D1D YOU KNOW TH4T C3NTUR13S 4GO ON MY PL4N3T, L3G1SL4C3R4TORS W3R3 NOT CONF1N3D TO STUFFY COURTBLOCKS 4RGU1NG C4S3S B3FOR3 H1S HONOR4BL3 TYR4NNY?
TG: oh shit are you fucking serious
GC: Y3S! 4LSO, SHUSH
GC: 1 KNOW YOU 4R3 S4SS1NG M3 DU3 TO MY US3 OF T3RMS UNF4M1L14R TO HUM4NS, BUT 1T 1S TRU3
GC: TH3Y W3R3 D3PLOY3D THROUGHOUT TH3 G4L4XY TO 4PPR3H3ND CR1M1N4LS BY 4NY M34NS N3C3SS4RY
TG: no i got that theyre like your alien death lawyers who were sorta like bounty hunters in olden times pretty simple to decipher through context
GC: 1 THOUGHT 1 TOLD YOU TO B3 QU13T!
GC: 1 4M MONOLOGU1NG H3R3 >:P
GC: 4NYW4Y, TH3Y WOULD NOT R3ST UNT1L TH31R SUSP3CT W4S 1N CUSTODY, ON3 W4Y OR 4NOTH3R
GC: TH3Y WOULD G4TH3R 3V1D3NC3 OV3R TH3 COURS3 OF TH3 1NV3ST1G4T1ON, COMP1L1NG 4 C4S3 TO B3 PR3S3NT3D 4T TH3 TR14L, SHOULD ON3 B3 H3LD B3FOR3 TH3 F1N4L SUBM1SS1ON OF TH3 GU1LTY CORPS3 TO JUD1C14L 4UTHOR1T13S
GC: P3RSON4L F33L1NGS 4ND V3ND3TT4S D1D NOT M4TT3R, NOR D1D 3V3N TH3 N4TUR3 OF TH3 CR1M3
GC: ONLY JUST1C3 D1D!
GC: TH3Y W3R3 S3L3CT3D FOR TH31R CUNN1NG 4ND M4RT14L PROW3SS
GC: 4ND FOR TH31R 4B1L1TY TO UND3RST4ND TH3 M1NDS OF TH3 CR1M1N4LS TH3Y SOUGHT
Terezi is suggesting that the legislacerators are connected to the mind aspect. Her ancestor Redglare, as a hero of mind, probably played a part in that; however, she’s supposed to be a newly employed legislacerator, making that idea not make all that much sense. Maybe she was an inspiration to them regardless?
I have two things to say about the implication that Gamzee put the 8-ball and poster next to Nepeta’s corpse to trick Terezi into thinking Vriska killed her:
(1) Terezi is convinced that she is a master of deduction and sleuthing crimes when like Rose (her fellow seer) and Vriska, she is in fact used as a pawn by someone connected to Lord English.
(2) Gamzee’s schemes against Terezi come across as hate-flirting in retrospect, because he knows Terezi likes solving crimes and tricking people. He probably set his eyes on Terezi blackways the moment his brain turned upside-down.
GC: TH1S 1S WHY TH3 BURD3N H4S TO B3 M1N3 1 TH1NK
GC: 1 4M TH3 ONLY ON3 WHO KNOWS HOW TO H4NDL3 H3R
GC: 4S SUCH, SH3 1S MY R3SPONS1B1L1TY
TG: ok i cant even make little interrogative quips to grease the wheels of your monologue
GC: Y3S TH4TS OK, 1N F4CT 1TS V3RY H3LPFUL
GC: WHO DO YOU TH1NK??
GC: YOU 4R3 CORR3CT
GC: TH3 SP1D3R13ST ON3 OF 4LL
Earlier it was implied that many of Terezi’s conversations with Dave consist of her moaning about Vriska (“i wonder if this can finally be the conversation that doesnt deteriorate into a lot of bitching and moaning about her”). Now we finally get to see that stuff firsthand.
TG: youve decided to take her down then
GC: 1 GU3SS SO
TG: you dont sound that psyched about it
GC: W3LL, 1M H3R3 T4LK1NG TO YOU 4BOUT 1T 1NST34D OF 4CTU4LLY DO1NG 1T, 4R3NT 1?
TG: are you feeling guilty
TG: like second guessing whether she deserves it
GC: NOT 3X4CTLY
TG: hasnt she done enough terrible shit to warrant legislaceration
GC: TH4T 1S NOT 4 TH1NG!
GC: BUT Y3S, TH3 C4S3 4G41NST H3R 1S OV3RWH3LM1NG
GC: MOR3 TH4N YOU 3V3N KNOW!
GC: SH3S COMPL3T3LY OUT OF CONTROL NOW
GC: SH3 H4S MURD3R3D 4T L34ST ON3 OF MY GOOD FR13NDS
GC: 4ND POSS1BLY S3V3R4L OTH3RS, 1 4M NOT SUR3 Y3T
GC: TH3 C1RCUMST4NC3S 4R3 4 L1TTL3 F1SHY, BUT MY 1NV3ST1G4T1ON 1S ONGO1NG
Terezi seems to be going a bit overboard with her grudge against Vriska. At first it was reasonable to assume that only she would kill Tavros, but later she was completely misguided and came up with incredibly absurd theories about her.
GC: 4DD1T1ON4LLY, 1 H4V3 D1SCOV3R3D SH3 1S COMPL1C1T 1N J4CKS R1S3 TO POW3R
GC: WH3N 1 F1RST L34RN3D H3 C4M3 FROM YOUR S3SS1ON, 1 M1ST4K3NLY BL4M3D YOU 4LL, 4ND TOOK 1T OUT ON 4 H4PL3SS 3GB3RT >:[
GC: BUT 1F 4NYON3 1S TO P4Y FOR R3L34S1NG TH4T D3MON ON BOTH OF OUR GROUPS, 1T 1S H3R
Do any of the other trolls know Vriska is behind Jack being created? Aside from Tavros who already hunted her down and was killed by her. Because if the others know that, they should all be focused on taking her on as a group.
TG: ok fine
TG: we can keep obsessing over your fucked up kismesister if you want
GC: 1TS NOT L1K3 TH4T! >XO
Dave referring to Vriska as Terezi’s “kismesister” kind of reminds me of how everyone is completely sure that Terezi and Karkat are dating but they deny it. It’s weird how the black Terezi/Vriska stuff is kind of dropped later on. A fair amount of pairings are dropped like this, but still few enough for that sort of thing to feel a bit wrong.
TG: do you think she stands a chance against him
TG: then whats the big deal
TG: why not let her go get her shit ruined by jack and let justice happen that way
GC: B3C4US3 1 4M QU1T3 SUR3 TH4T 1F SH3 GO3S TO F1ND H1M, 1T W1LL T1P H1M OFF TO OUR LOC4T1ON 1N TH3 V31L
GC: 1 H4V3 S33N 1T 4LR34DY
GC: TH4T 1S WHY TH1S 1S NO S1MPL3 V3ND3TT4
GC: BR1NG1NG H3R TO JUST1C3 1S CR1T1C4L TO OUR SURV1V4L!
With this passage in mind, after Vriska is prevented from being killed, I’m not sure why she didn’t go to fight Jack anyway after getting knocked out and waking up. Maybe her head hurt too much to do so? Or did the other trolls convince her not to fight Jack and that they have a plan to escape him? When you think about it, the whole retcon stuff leaves us a fair share of plot holes which is part of why it’s such a controversial story arc.
TG: so why dont you go do it
GC: 1M NOT SUR3 1F 1 C4N
TG: you mean you cant beat her in a fight
GC: NO, 1TS NOT TH4T
GC: 1T JUST TH4T WH3N TH3 T1M3 COM3S
GC: 1M NOT SUR3 1F 1 W1LL B3 4BL3 TO K1LL H3R
TG: i thought trolls were all about gratuitous murderings
This is once again reminiscent of Vriska, with how she felt bad about killing Tavros even though that’s completely OK in troll society.
GC: 1 GU3SS
GC: 1 4M NOT SO MUCH WORR13D 4BOUT NOT B31NG R34DY
GC: 4S 1 4M TH4T…
GC: 1 M1GHT NOT 4CTU4LLY W4NT TO B3 R34DY
GC: M4YB3 3V3R
GC: M4YB3 TH3R3S SOM3TH1NG WRONG W1TH M3
Some people don’t like the whole Terezi getting depressed over killing Vriska arc because it feels kind of out-of-nowhere. But here, she’s already conflicted about whether to kill her. This is the beauty of rereading: you catch early foreshadowing of stuff that you never knew about.
TG: i dont understand
TG: i thought you were insane kinds of apeshit over the macabre stuff
TG: like being all cutesy about executions and smelling cherry blood and such things contrived to get a guy feeling vaguely uncomfortable
TG: was that all an act
GC: NOT 4N 4CT
GC: JUST FUN!
GC: 1 L1K3 FUN, D4V3, 4ND 1 4LSO L1K3 G4M3S
GC: DONT YOU L1K3 FUN 4ND G4M3S?
TG: of course the fuck not
GC: L14R!!! >:O
TG: didnt you say youve killed people before
GC: TH3R3 1S 4 B1G D1FF3R3NC3 B3TW33N M4N1PUL4T1NG P3OPL3 TO TH31R DOOM W1TH TR1CK3RY, 4ND K1LL1NG SOM3ON3 BY YOUR OWN H4ND
GC: 1T 1S 4 B1T L1K3 H4V1NG TO F4C3 YOUR OWN D34TH…
GC: 4ND D1SCOV3R1NG TH3 D1FF3R3NC3 B3TW33N L34V1NG TH3 R3SPONS1B1L1TY TO SOM3ON3 3LS3, 4ND DO1NG TH3 D1RTY WORK YOURS3LF
GC: M4YB3 YOULL UND3RST4ND SOM3 D4Y >;]
Terezi thought Dave was a wimp for not being able to face his own death, but when she faces death it’s a whole different story. These thoughts probably didn’t occur to her until she started thinking about the prospect of killing Vriska.
TG: why dont you just do what you think you have to do
TG: and ill do the same
TG: speaking of which
GC: OH, R1GHT
GC: YOULL B3 BUGG1NG M3 4BOUT SHOW1NG YOU HOW TO R34CH TH3 GOD T13R SOON
GC: PROMPT3D BY TH1S V3RY CONV3RS4T1ON 1 1M4G1N3, WHOD H4V3 THOUGHT!
TG: these time shenanigans completely blindsided us they practically never even happen
GC: 1 KNOW
Oh hell no not this bullshit again. We actually haven’t had this self-originating idea time shenanigan nonsense in quite a while. In this case, Dave bugging Terezi originated from itself.
TG: so i hang up now with future you and then start pestering present you about it is that how it works
TG: and i make sure not to reference anything said here to keep it simple
TG: except like in an offhand way thatll seem retroactively logical to your future self
TG: ie you right now
TG: if for no other reason than itd be boring as hell to rehash it
GC: TH4T SOUNDS 4BOUT R1GHT BUT WH4T DO 1 KNOW
GC: YOUR3 TH3 T1M3 GUY 4FT3R 4LL
In this case, the self-originating thing of Dave once more bugging Terezi about reaching god tier is not only a mind-wrenching paradox, it is also completely pointless given what Terezi said earlier (she told Dave how to reach god tier, he got mad and decided to do his own thing for a while). So this is a completely useless thing that originated from itself. I know some other useless things came up as time paradoxes (like the one time Terezi punched Karkat and said it was from John) but typically they’re somehow relevant predestined things.
After the long pesterlog concludes, Terezi exits the room she’s in, leading to this:
Every April 13th there’s been some kind of big update to Homestuck, either the comic, or in the case of the fifth anniversary when Paradox Space was launched, the franchise in general. The second anniversary update, however, isn’t too grandiose; the main anniversary thing in this update is the introduction of the Homestuck discs. I think Hussie may have come up with this idea on the spot as something to do for the second anniversary of the comic, given that the pages leading up to this update were a regular long chatlog, rather than the start or end of an act or anything of that sort.
So you remove disc 1 and insert disc 2, only to find out that disc 2 is missing. Even if it doesn’t have much fanfare, it’s still a decent second birthday update that leads to a whole new subplot of meta shenanigans.
Also, this makes me wonder: if Act 6 Act 6 is all on the nonexistent Disc 3 that flips between Caliborn’s narration and regular comic procession, where does Act 7 fall in the disc structure? There’s yet another epilogue hope that just came to me: maybe the epilogue will involve a metafictional subplot.
Obvious thing I missed. As shown in the picture above, Terezi has read the name of the comic she is in.
Even with disc two missing, the comic makes its best effort to proceed as usual.
Weird blend of the sprite mode and 8-bit art styles.
You have no idea what the hell this thing is, or why you would need another disc.
You just captchalogue it and proceed. There is justice to be done, and you are running out of time.
I think this is an alright stopping point. It’s once again fewer pages than usual, but it means that the next post will be about 50 pages. I could’ve gone from [S] Seer: Descend all the way until Doc Scratch takes control of the narrative, but that would probably make the post too long.
Thursday Friday as Terezi does a whole bunch of silly nonsense that involves pretty much breaking the story.